迈克尔杰克逊中文网 - 歌迷论坛

标题: 【迈克尔杰克逊的私密录音节选版】犹太牧师出的书 MJ心灵告白 [打印本页]
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:06
标题: 【迈克尔杰克逊的私密录音节选版】犹太牧师出的书 MJ心灵告白



第26节：爱情的火花与懵懂的爱

中文翻译：飞扬清婉   第2页第18楼

===============================================================




真的很感动。
这样一本365页的书，在短短几天内几乎翻译完成。
这是我在发起这个活动之前完全没有想到的。
大家的激情和责任心，友善的感谢，都让我非常窝心。
只有迈，才能把我们大家这样的联系起来。

之后我会慢慢校对，争取能做成电子书，做一个永恒的纪念。

对英文翻译感兴趣的筒子们可以做各种校对工作，欢迎针对任何一段译文进行质疑。不能说做到完美，但是我们可以力争做到最好。

英文版电子书(感谢alextoalex同学提供)

megaupload下载：

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QO1WP8ME

纳米盘下载:

http://d.namipan.com/d/008da0ecf ... 86dc23c34638a564d03

Rayfile下载：
http://www.rayfile.com/files/460 ... -861b-0014221b798a/


==============================================================

整理完毕部分：

第1节：命中注定,讨论英年早逝 　　　　　　     中文翻译： lovelymj+BigBee/Aojng   第1页第2楼   
第2节：童年，寂寞，卡通和兄弟们(未完） 　     中文翻译：BigBee/Aojng+xqshu＋zhangxyjoy ＋Aojng 第1页第3、4楼
第3节：迈克的外表：一个镜中的丑陋男子 　      中文翻译：Aojng  第1页第4楼      
第4节：对父亲的畏惧 　　　　　　　　　　      中文翻译：jessicayang  第1页第5楼
第5节：对珍妮的保护 　　　　　　　　　　      中文翻译：BigBee  第1页第5楼
第6节：痛苦的祝福：我所想要的就是被爱 　      中文翻译：shell88  第1页第6楼
第7节：ROSE FINE: MICHAEL的童年导师 　　中文翻译：shell88  第1页第6楼
第8节：被耶和华见证人教会所拒绝 　　            中文翻译：think2  第1页第7楼
第9节：迈克尔是否把自己当成是上帝的选民？  迈克尔是否拥有特殊的治愈他人的能力？（healing power） 　　中文翻译：think2  第1页第7楼
第11节：MJ与宗教 　　中文翻译：gummykitty   第1页第8楼
第12节： 宗教及在仪式中发现神 　　中文翻译：gummykitty   第1页第9楼
第13节： 因果报应和公正 　　中文翻译：gummykitty   第1页第9+10楼
第14节： 种族主义、宗教及反犹主义 　　中文翻译：gummykitty   第1页第10+11+12楼
第15节： 遵循与人相处的金科玉律 　　中文翻译：gummykitty   第1页第12楼
第16节： 对野心，成功、诚实的想法 　　中文翻译：熊顿   第1页第13楼
第17节： 演出的痛苦，世界之巅的压力 　　中文翻译：nicknicknick   第1页第14楼
第18节： 神秘大师 　　中文翻译：BigBee+maryruan   第1页第14+15楼
第19节： 名望之谏 　　中文翻译：BigBee+maryruan   第1页第15楼
第20节：性和谦卑    中文翻译：feier  第1页第15楼
第21节：恐惧    中文翻译：maryruan  第2页第16楼
第22节：生活在玻璃鱼缸里    中文翻译：jessicayang  第2页第16楼
第23节：雄心和耐心，嫉妒和宽恕，对媒体的愤怒    中文翻译：maryruan   第2页第17楼
第24节：MJ与歌迷间的爱：相濡以沫    中文翻译：飞扬清婉   第2页第17楼
第25节：恋爱关系、想要成为你的女朋友    中文翻译：BigBee   第2页第18楼
第26节：爱情的火花与懵懂的爱    中文翻译：飞扬清婉  第2页第18楼
第30节：与名流关系恶化——麦当娜及其他人。    中文翻译：Aojng   第2页第24楼


==================================================================

工程进度：

第10节： Feeling Godlike, Connecting to the Divine------楼层：14      翻译预定：Aojng   翻译状况：等待校对
第27节： Thinking About the Perfect Woman------楼层：32     翻译预定：feier 翻译状况：等待校对
第28节： Motherly Figures------楼层：35     翻译预定：think2 翻译状况：等待校对
第29节： Women and Trust—Lisa Marie Presley and His Brothers’ Wives------楼层：58     翻译预定：candyc  翻译状况：等待校对
第31节： Loneliness, Wanting Children, and Lisa Marie Presley's Second Thouhgts------楼层：64+72     翻译预定：BigBee+nicknicknick 翻译状况：等待校对
第32节： Looking for True Friendship------楼层：82     翻译预定：BigBee翻译状况：等待校对

===============================================================================

第32节:   Michel and Shirley Temple Black: Kindred Spirits （1）            翻译完成：飞扬清婉  P34 #506  
第32节:   Michel and Shirley Temple Black: Kindred Spirits  （2）           翻译完成：飞扬清婉  P34 #506
第33节： Elizabeth Taylor: A special Bond                                             翻译完成：shell88   P25 #374
第34节： Can Children Teach us Love?                                                 翻译完成：BigBee   P24 #348
第35节： Why Michael REmained Childlike?                                           翻译完成：BigBee   P24 #360
第36节： God Heals Through Children                                                   翻译完成：Aojng    P32 #471  
第37节： Music Talent                                                                            翻译完成：BigBee  P26 #382
第38节： M's Relationship with his Accuser and Other Children             翻译完成：BigBee  P26 #383
第39节： Knowing Ryan White and Other Chilren Battling Cancer         翻译完成：nicknicknick  P26 #379
第40节： Being Dad with Prince and Paris                                              翻译完成： nicknicknick P27 #396
第41节： Playfulness                                                                              翻译预定：Aojng P38 #565
第42节： Practical Jokes                                                                        翻译完成：飞扬清婉  P37 #541
==============================================================================

为了延续Vick网友的心意，本贴旨在分享.

欢迎大家多多转贴到其他网站上.

请转帖校对后的部分，谢谢

请转贴的朋友注明来源mjjcn,还有每部分翻译的网友的名字，并欢迎把转贴的网址贴到本贴来，谢谢

lovelymj谢谢各位英文高手的翻译.

每个人贡献一点点力量,就可以把迈迈的精神传达给更多的人.



==================================================================

已转帖地址 ：
MJHKFC: http://mjhkfc.marlito.com/viewth ... amp;extra=#pid86445
http://www30.discuss.com.hk/view ... &extra=page%3D1           

======================================================================

感谢shell88的消息。http://www.mjjcn.com/mjjcnforum/thread-82919-1-1.html



原贴由海外迈迷Vick和renee逐字逐句打字输入

http://www.mjfanclub.net/mjforum373/showthread.php?t=16908


Vick的话:

我每天会尽量把书中的内容打出来，所以那些不想要买这本书的人可以读到迈克的思想。我尽会打出问答部分而不会写出Rabbi的个人看法（除非那是在问题中包含的）。大家真的不用感谢我，这让我觉得不舒服。你们来听迈克的心声是对我最大的回报。我必须要和大家分享这些。




We love MJ.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:12
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 05:56 编辑

第一节：命中注定。讨论英年早逝

翻译: lovelymj+bigbee/Aojng

SB: 所以你说在批头士组合身上发生的最好的事情就是他们分道扬镳了。这就是他们经久不衰的原因。因为突然轰的一下，他们不在了。所以你永远都不会觉得他们无聊。他们永远都不会虎头蛇尾？

MJ: 是的。玛丽莲梦露在年轻的时候死去。你就不会看到她又老又丑的样子。我的意思是像詹姆士迪恩那样的谜。

SB: 而且人们谈论到披头士的时候会说：“我希望他们还在一起。”

MJ: 是的，是的。

SB: 然后你会成为愿望的一部分。公众鼓励他们继续，因为他们非常想让披头士重新聚在一起。

MJ: 就是这样。要不然他们现在就会变老变糟，人们不会再在乎他们。

SB: 所以迈克，你可能会在某天宣布：“到此为止了。”然后退出么？

MJ: 是的，我想要在某个时间以某种方式消失掉，这样人们再也看不到我。然后我会以一种不被人看见的方式为孩子们做我该做的事。消失掉是很重要的。我们都是会改变的。在我们的生活中需要改变。这就是我们为什么会有春夏秋冬四季。

SB: 好吧，可是你想要健康长寿。你不想（上帝原谅我）象玛丽莲梦露那样的消失吧。你不想英年早逝对不对？

MJ: 呃。。。。 你问了我一个非常有趣的问题。你确定你想要知道我的答案么？

SB: 我确定。

MJ: 好吧，我会给你一个诚实的答案。我已经通过音乐和所有的来实现了我的其他梦想。我爱音乐和娱乐。我还未完成的最大的梦想就是是由孩子们引发的，也是我们正在做的。（他指的是M和SB共同帮助儿童的项目。）可是这是因为我并不在乎其他的任何事，我真的不在意我的事业，真的。Shmuely. 让我继续下去的动力是孩子们。如果不是这样的话。。。我会很。。。我之前对你说过，，，我向上帝发誓我说的每个字都是真实的。如果不是为了这些孩子和婴儿，我早就举手投降了。这是我最真诚的答案。。。。我之前也说过，如果不是为了孩子们，我会选择死亡。我真的是这么想。

SB: 象玛丽莲梦露那样的死法？

MJ: 某种方式吧。我会找到一种从这个星球上消失的方法的，因为我不在乎我是否活着了。我为了这些婴儿和孩子而活。

SB: 你真的把他们作为上帝在地球上的一部分来看待么？

MJ: 我发誓他们是上帝的一部分。

SB: 所以对你来说这是世界上最神圣的事情？

MJ: 对我来说，没有比孩子们更加纯洁和神圣的了。我的生命中不能没有他们。如果你现在告诉我：“迈克，你永远都不能再见到一个孩子了。”我会自杀。我象你保证我会的。因为我没有活下去的动力了。结束了。真的。

SB: 你想要长寿么？

MJ: 让我收回“发誓”那个词。因为我不向上帝发誓。我把它收回。我不想用那个词。你再问一遍？

SB: 你说你想要消失。你认为消失很重要么？

MJ: 我不想要长寿。我不想，不想，不想。我认为变老是最丑陋的事情了。身体机能衰退而且开始长皱纹。我认为这很糟糕。我不要。这是我不能理解的，Shmuely. 我从来都不想看到镜子里的自己变老。我不理解，真的。人们说变老是美妙的事情，怎么怎么样。我不同意，完全不。

SB: 所以你会在变老之前死去么？

MJ: 呃， 我不想要变老，我想要。。。

（SB切断话题）

SB: 如果你能够在精神上保持年轻呢？

MJ: 对啊，这对我来说很重要。

Sb: 你可能会长皱纹。可是你难道不想看着王子和巴黎长大么？

MJ: 我想。

SB: 你想不想看他们的孩子？

MJ: 我只是不想看上去很老而且开始健忘。我想要一直年轻，有精力跑来跑去并且玩捉迷藏，这是我最喜欢的游戏。上次我到你家的时候就很想玩了。因为你的房子又大又好，很适合玩捉迷藏。呃。。。。我讨厌看到别人变老。Shmuely.

SB: 难道你没见过有些人变老了却保持了青春么？他们的行为就好像他们依旧年轻。

MJ: 是啊，当他们有一颗年轻的心。我喜欢那样。可是他们开始健忘并且长皱纹的时候，他们的身体衰弱的时候，让我伤心。。。或者当他们。。。

SB: 在你爱的人当中有谁这样了？ 你的母亲？父亲？或者其他你认识的艺人变老么？


MJ: 是的。我很爱的人死去，我不理解为什么。Fred Astaire, 我爱这个男人。他是我的朋友。我不明白。你看Fred。我小时候Fred住在我家附近。那时他经常和我说话，他会教给我一些事情，他会告诉我我会变成一颗巨星之类的东西。我小时候甚至都没想过那些。看到他在电影里的舞蹈的时候，我非常吃惊。我不知道人居然可以这么美妙的移动。你知道么？呃。。。我看着他慢慢走向终点。。。有一天他对我说：“你知道么？迈克，如果我现在做一个旋转，我会摔破脸。我的平衡感完全消失了。”我去他家，他来开门的时候，他就这样走路，就像这样小小的碎步，这让我心碎。伤害了我。他死去的那天几乎要了我的命。那毁了我。

SB: 可是看看戴安娜王妃身上发生了什么？那是悲剧，迈克。

MJ: 那是个悲剧。那也几乎要了我的命。那要了所有人的命，我觉得。

SB: 所以英年早逝并不好。那可能会让你成为一个神话，可是生命太宝贵了，是不是？

MJ: 生命非常美好，非常珍贵。

SB: 所以你认为有一天你也会成为一个神话。

MJ: 你看，为什么我们不能像树一样呢？他们在冬日里失去叶子，而在春天又变回美丽的模样。你知道么？它们是永生的。圣经说人类本应获得永生，可是因为所有这些罪孽，我们最后死去。



以下部分翻译: BigBee /Aojng   英文原文:P10 第141楼  校正: lovelymj


SB: 也许你会去个不同的地方，达到一个更高的境界，然后你的灵魂在一瞬间会变得无拘无束，你实际上离人们更近了一些。想想吧，此时此刻，上帝就在那儿，Michael。即使你不能触及或感觉到他，我们都相信他的存在。那些我们深爱的灵魂与自己的灵魂很不同吗？


MJ:我真想如同一个不会长大的小孩一般归来，就像彼得潘那样。我希望，我希望自己会坚信那是真的，我可以不断的归来，我希望这是真的，我宁愿相信这是真的，Shmuely。

SB: 你指转世么? 你想要一直重生为婴儿？

MJ:没错…尽管我们的，不，我的宗教（耶和华见证人）认为没有重生这回事。当你死去你的灵魂也随之消亡。你知道么，就像这个沙发是死的，但是总会有复活这样的许诺。（这里可能是指，耶和华见证人的信徒不相信基督身体复活和重生，但他们相信人死后有“第二次得救的机会”。具体请见：http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/109499753.html?si=3）

SB: 但是印度教教徒深信轮回转世之说。

MJ:我宁愿相信那个。我很欣赏埃及人和非洲人的做法，例如他们如何安葬尸体。我想去看看，我们都想去看看，往生世界到底是什么样子，对吧？

SB: 我真希望我们能知道在生命终结之后会发生什么，还有天堂到底是何等光景。

MJ: 对啊， 因为在这件事上有很多种观点。

SB: 你认为天堂里会有孩子们在玩耍么？

MJ: 喔，我的上帝啊，我祈祷天堂里是这个样子。

SB: 成年人也会在那里玩耍么?

MJ:我会这么认为，我觉得他们会纯真的如同孩童，就像亚当和夏娃那样，那是一个幸福的花园，一个完美的世外桃源。我祈祷天堂会像那样。

SB: 你害怕死亡么？

MJ: 害怕。

SB: 我们都害怕。

MJ:我总是跟别人说我要安葬在周围有孩子的地方，我想要他们在我身边。那样我会感觉更加安全。我需要他们的精神来庇护我，在我心底总会那样的场景，我不想看到自己单独的躺在那里，我要看到我和孩子们一起在那里，他们保护着我。

( rabi 继续唠叨了一页。。)
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:16
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 06:42 编辑


第二节：童年，寂寞，卡通和兄弟们。


翻译: BigBee /Aojng +xqshu＋zhangxyjoy  校对: lovelymj

以下部分翻译by BigBee 校对：lovelymj

SB: 你有没有到某个年龄突然意识到”哦，我的天啊，我错过了自己的童年？“

MJ: 没错， 一切都历历在目。那种欲罢不能的感觉。你会想，"哦，我的天啊，我以前都做什么来着？”可你已经尽心尽力，不能半途而废。在我十几岁之前就有这种感觉了。我多么渴望去街对面的公园玩耍，那些孩子们在玩棒球、橄榄球，但是我必须得录歌。我可以看到那个公园，就在街对面，但是我必须去别的楼里熬夜录制专辑。我泪流满面的坐在那看着那些孩子，我只能说“我被困住了，我的余生都不得不做这些事，我签订了契约。” 但是我多么想去那里玩阿，这种想法折磨着我，我只想交个朋友，打声招呼。我告诉过你，我经常在街上走，找人说话。

SB: 那时你多大啊？

MJ: 那是在Thriller 时期。

SB: 所以你那时是世界巨星却。。

MJ:我一直在找可以聊天的人，我非常孤独，以至于我会在楼上自己的房间里哭泣。我那时想，“到此为止了，我要从这里出去。”我在大街上走，我记得自己真的对大街上的人说“你愿意成为我的朋友吗？”

SB: 他们一定很吃惊。

MJ:他们都会像这样反应“哦，Michael Jackson!" 然后我就想，"我的天啊，他们想要和我做朋友仅仅因为我是Michael Jackson么？还是因为我本身？ 我只想和别人聊聊天。

SB: 你找到可以聊天的人了么？

MJ: 是的，我去了公园，有些小孩正在荡秋千。

SB: 所以从那时起你就知道孩子是你的答案。只有他们把你当做一个普通人来看待？

MJ: 是啊，的确是这样。

SB-（胡说八道省略）

MJ:我承受了很多，我知道那个时候我出问题了，我需要一些人。我想这也许就是为什么，呃，我会拥有这些人体模型。因为我觉得我需要人，某个人，但是实际我没有，在真人面前让我感到太不好意思。可是我不和那些假人说话, 并不象老妇人与植物讲话那样。我总想要什么东西来陪伴我。我总会想：“为什么我会有这些？”它们就像真正的婴儿，小孩和大人，而这让我感觉到我身处于一个充满了人的房间。

（ SB叽叽歪歪）

SB: 你为什么感到如此害羞而不去和真人说话呢？是因为你仅仅学过如何表演，而没有机会出去遛弯么？

MJ: 就是这样，的确没有机会出去走一走。

SB: 你现在还会感到孤独么？

MJ: 不总是像以前那样了，不了。

SB: 很明显，你有了孩子们，这是个很大的转变。但是我们的人生并不是只当父母这么简单，我们还需要其他形式的交流。

MJ: 什么样的交流呢？

SB:就是你向某人倾诉情感，那些Prince 或者paris无法理解的情感。

MJ: 恩。。。我会向朋友们还有某些我可以信任的人袒露心扉，伊丽莎白， 或者像麦考利， 邓波.... 有着同样经历的人。

SB: 所以总是那些有类似经历的人，那些童星们?

MJ: 那些不是童星的人会说"好吧，我知道你的意思" 但是他们并不知道你什么意思，他们只是试图着去同意你的看法。

SB: 你和同是童星的朋友们谈论发生在他们身上的那些私事么？或者你们根本就不必说，因为你们都了解这些？

MJ: 你知道么，那就像心灵感应一般，我希望你见过我和邓波一起的样子。

SB: 你还和她联系么？

MJ: 我会给她打电话的，我想再给她打给电话，我总是感谢她，她总是说“为什么要感激我呢？”然后我说：“因为你为我所做的这一切。”

SB: 你觉得自己会给她写首歌么？

MJ: 我真的想给她写首歌。

SB: 所以麦考利•卡尔金不必对你说“我去拍电影和我爸爸有着密切的关系。”你们甚至都不必谈论这些？

MJ:哦，是的。麦考利•卡尔金有着珍贵的甜蜜的小小灵魂，如同婴儿。他总是怀疑“我怎么可能对这种东西入迷？我从来都不想做演员。”他总是要脱离出去。你得看看当他背负他父亲的压力（get heavy on）时所表现出的能量。天，那种压力猛扑向他。这就是发生在他身上的事。你知道么，可是我觉得我与他同在（迈迈尖叫着）“麦考利•卡尔金在这儿。”（get in here感觉是这两个人心灵相通的意思）

( SB没完没了，我就一点都不打出来。）

SB：你认为麦考利。卡尔金，你还有其他的一些人会更正常，因为你们懂得自己失去了什么，需要做一些事情来补偿？

MJ: 你知道,总有一些人我可以理解，还有一些人我不能理解。波姬小丝的话，她是模特出身，所以并不是每天都全天在片场。她只做模特工作。她那时候还不是电影明星直到她演（我记得是）“Pretty Baby”（pretty baby是波姬小丝的成名作）。她在里面扮演一名妓女，她那时12岁左右.她拍了很多照片，所以也并不像我们整天从早到晚那样的工作。我觉得这种经历会给人造成不同的影响，可是结果都一样。许多人认为美人无脑，但是她是很聪明。

以下部分翻译by: xqshu 校对: lovelymj

SB：还有其他哪些童星和你关系亲密呢？

MJ：很多人都已经不在了。那是令人害怕的。他们大部分人会摧残自己。

SB：你在13岁就成为一部卡通系列片的人物。这很难应付吗？

MJ：我每个星期六早上都迫不急待地醒来。

SB：看杰克逊家族的片子？

MJ：是啊，看杰克逊五兄弟的卡通片。被做成一部卡通片我感觉很荣幸。你不知道我有多高兴。我们一点儿事都不用做，别人配的音。他们只是把我们做成动画，并使用了我们唱片里的歌曲，这部卡通片播放了很多年。我记得我在文莱国为苏丹王进行表演期间，住在一家 医院。那是我所看到的最美的医院，我躺在床上，而电视上正播放着杰克逊五兄弟的卡通片，我简直不敢相信。他们一直在播这部片子。这家公司同时做披头士、奥 特蒙家族和杰克逊五兄弟的动画片。

SB：所以这是你最喜欢的东西之一？

MJ：哦，我爱它。

SB：它是不是让你感觉自己和世界上的孩子联系更紧密？因为你知道大部分孩子都会看这部片子。

MJ：我喜欢这部片子，它就好像使我生活在另一个世界，就好像“天啊，我在另一个世界。”我感觉很特别。我认为和流行唱片、演唱会和所有事情相比，这部片子使我感觉更特别。它比其他事情给我的印象更深刻。

SB：现在，在你们五兄弟中，你比他们任何一个都更受关注。自从你单飞后，你逐渐成为一名巨星。你的兄弟们是不是难以接受呢？你是不是也难以应付？圣经上有个关于约瑟夫因为自己受到更多关注而被兄弟们伤害的故事，这两件事有相似之处吗？

MJ：我原本没想过这件事，晚些时候我才知晓，后来就比较明显了。我母亲看在眼里，但她不打算让我知道。但是我认为是妻子们在背后煽动。这使我们的组合分崩瓦解。这些妻子们使披头士组合、马丁和路易斯等不欢而散，她们破坏了所有伟大的组合。妻子介入其中，并开始对他们中一员说， “你是明星，他需要你，而你不需要他”。然后第二天，他志得意满地来工作并开始争斗。这种事就发生在我和我兄弟之间，她们确实这样做了，我看着它发生的。

（SB唧唧歪歪半页多）

SB：那就是你有点逃避婚姻的原因吗？

MJ：曾经是。我说，“我绝不参与这事。”我说，“我不结婚。” 我已经这样说了几年了。

SB：有没有办法阻止组合的分裂呢？你可以和兄弟们说：“看，我们身上发生了什么事？”你有阻止过吗？他们早早结婚，他们也肯定很孤独。

MJ：他们早早结婚是为了离开我父亲，离开这个家。我们恳求他们不要结婚，但他们不听。

SB：你为什么留在家里？

MJ：在Thriller的巅峰时期我呆在家里。我原以为我还是小孩，还没到离开的时候。我还是个男孩，离开家还不是时候。我心里真的这么认为。

SB：但是你仍然很害怕你父亲？你们是如何走到一起的？

MJ：那时候他不管我，但他可以得到版税支票。他那时候相对冷静并且以我为傲，可是他不会说出来。

SB：你想听他说出来吗？

MJ：我需要。

SB：在所有人当中最想听他说？

MJ：是的。

SB：他以前从未说过，他现在也没说吗？你认为他知道你是世界的超级巨星吗？或者你认为在他内心他还不知道这个？

MJ：他知道，但他发现称赞你很难，而这就驱使我变成一个如此追求完美的人以期待能给他留下深刻印象。他会坐在观众席中，他会像这样耷拉着脸。他会这样（麦克做出一个面部表情），那表情把你吓得魂飞魄散，你会想，“我不能把这搞砸了，他会杀了我们的。”所有人都会鼓掌，而他就好像在说，“别把事情搞砸了，否则我们会狠狠地揍你。”我的感觉就是“天啊，表演结束后我会有麻烦了。”

SB：既然你生活的两个推动力是恐惧和爱，你会不会觉得如果仅以爱为推动力的话你能走的更远？（或者说你的父亲是为了使你成功而选择了粗暴教育？）这句翻译要感谢"阿重"的修改,我开始确实有点看晕了

MJ：我认为这需要一种平衡。放弃父道值得吗？放弃我献给他的爱值得吗？放弃我们看着对方眼睛时的那种友情值得吗？放弃手拉手一起在公园散步值得吗？我认为放弃这些事情都不值得。我很抱歉，它们都是难能可贵的。

SB：如果你作了一个好父亲却使事业受挫，你能接受这个代价吗？
SB: If your career now suffers for being a hands-on father, you are prepared to accept this price?
MJ：不能，我没准备那么做。我能把两样都做好，我觉得我必须这么做。

SB：你认为上帝给了你这个潜力，这种天赋，所以你必须做好这两件事，是吗？

MJ：是的，我必须做到。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:19
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 22:09 编辑

以下部分翻译by: zhangxyjoy 校对: lovelymj
zhangxyjoy的话：不过，在上交翻译作业前，多写几句。在amazon的读者评述中，对于这本书的评价呈现两极，大部分读者给了1星，最多2星，他们的观点比较相似，认为mj有美好的心灵但是sb是个丑恶的评论者。但是也有少部分读者给出了5星，他们认为sb向大家展示了一个美好的mj，他们对sb表达了深深的谢意。我的观点是大家自行判断，不必人云亦云。鉴于自己上述的观点，俺的翻译包括了俺能见到的全部文字。


SB：如果有人说：“瞧，迈克尔，你不认同你父亲抚养你的方式。他是位严师，会很严厉甚至会很刻薄，但是他的方法很有效。”现在即便你声称职业生涯的成功不是最重要的事情，我也同意这一点。可是你在我们第一次谈话中就说过：“我欠了父亲很多，他教我如何表演和舞蹈。”而且作为一个明星的你反复强调：“你是错的他是对的，他使你成为今天的你，所以你怎么能如此不领情呢？” 迈克尔，特别是他在贫苦中长大，所以他不希望你像他那样在钢厂工作，他认为：“作为孩子，迈克尔练习和排演总比在单杠上玩要好，因为至少将来这可以给他带来好的收入，他可以过体面的生活。”

MJ：训练我成为舞台艺人这方面他做的很好。但是（作为一个）父亲他太严厉了。我不喜欢评判他，但是如果我是父亲，我会有一些不同的做法。我从来没有感受过父爱。我还记得上飞机的时候，他们往往要把我扛上去，因为我痛恨湍流。如果在暴风雨中起飞，我会尖叫和乱踢，这些我记得很清楚，那时侯父亲从来没有搂着我或者抚摸我，以至于空姐不得不过来握住我的手来安抚我。

SB：他是一个爱生气的人？

MJ：我认为他很爱生气。我不明白为什么。他现在不这样了，但是他那时侯很严厉，他是我遇到的最严厉的人。

SB：如果有人对你说：“瞧，迈克尔，你不可能鱼和熊掌兼得。他是一个很棒的经纪人却不是一个充满爱意的父亲，他教给你怎样表演，他教给你纪律。” 那你会说你愿意用事业去交换一个充满爱的童年吗？（rabi继续说，但是我才不在乎它说什么）

MJ：他本可以对我做好其他事，同时有时间成为一位父亲——和我们玩游戏或者玩球。我记得告诉过你有一次他把我放到一匹小马上，我想他没有意识到那件事在我头脑中留下多么深刻而永久的印记。

SB：那是我听过的关于父爱的感人故事之一。父子之间的那个时刻能够留下如此深刻的印记真令人吃惊，也非常感人。

MJ：如今我想起这件事的时候，我只希望他曾经能做的更多一点儿，就多一点儿。那样的话我现在对整件事的印象就会很不同。

SB：也许你不会象现在这样迫切地想证明自己。如果在你的孩提时代能多得到一点点爱的话，也许你就不需要全世界来爱你，你也不会成为超级巨星。为了能像孩子一样被关爱，你愿意放弃你的事业吗？

MJ：不，我永远不会放弃，那是我的工作，我被赋予这项工作是有原因的，我真的相信而且我感到……

SB：上帝选择了你，给予你特别（的天赋） ……

MJ：我真的相信，如果你能见到世界各地的一些面孔，听到人们说：“谢谢你，感谢你挽救了我的生命和我的孩子，我能触摸你吗？”然后他们开始哭泣，这就像治愈病患一样，我们被赋予这一切是因为一个原因——去帮助他人。


============================================



第三节：Michael的外表：一个镜中的丑陋男子

翻译： Aojng  校对 lovelymj[


(A同学插话:这是题目…AN UGLY MAN IN THE MIRROR…靠..反了天了..敢用我们自己的歌名讽刺我们?!)
( L同学插话：我觉得这里的镜子指的是自己在内心深处看到自己的影子，如果迈内心深处不喜欢自己的样子，那他觉得镜中人应该是丑陋的呢）

SB：你真的认为有一天你能消失，成为一个隐士？

MJ：是的。

SB：住在Neverland里，然后锁上大门。是这样么？

MJ：是的。我知道我会的

SB：但是，为什么？不想让人们看到你变老?

MJ：我对此无能为力。我太热爱世上美好的东西了，美妙的自然。我希望能向整个世界传达我的信息，只是我不想被看到…就像…当我的那些照片从电脑上显示出来，我一看就觉得恶心。

SB：为什么?

MJ：因为我看起来就像只蜥蜴。太可怕了。我从不喜欢。我希望我从来都没被拍到或者看到。我逼着自己去做这些事情。真的。(指在牛津大学和纽约卡耐基音乐厅发表演讲)

SB：Michael，一些人写说你父亲经常说你丑。这是真的么?

MJ：嗯。他经常取笑（我）。。。。我记得有一次我们的飞机正准备起飞，当时我正经历着尴尬的青春期，我的容貌开始变化。然后他说：“呀，你鼻子真大。这可不是遗传我的。”他没意识到这对我造成了多大伤害。那深深伤害了我。那让我想死。

SB：那句“这可不是遗传我的”是不是针对你妈妈的？

MJ：我不知道他想说什么。

SB：你认为告诉孩子们他们很美很重要吗？

MJ：是的，但也别太夸张。人们应该重视内在美。我通常这样做：Prince照镜子，梳头，然后说“我看上去很帅！”我说：“你看上去还不错。”

SB：你是不是可以认为你父亲是在向你灌输一种观念，那就是“你并不英俊”？所以你试图改变一点你的容貌，但你仍然不高兴。所以，真的，你应该开始去喜爱你的容貌和你自己的全部。

MJ：我知道。我希望我能做到。

MJ：你想剪掉你的胡子么？

SB—谁***关心你的答案！
然后他们讨论了一会这倒霉的胡子…进下一段…（…原文如此…）

SB：那天，就是周四晚上，你看起来好极了。（Michael打扮得漂漂亮亮的去参加为癌症募捐的Denise Rich天使舞会。）你是那里最美的人。即便如此你也不愿被拍到么？

MJ：我希望我永远不被拍到永远不被看到。只是为了娱乐事业，所以我以我的方式创作了舞蹈和电影。

SB：现在你想拍电影么？

MJ：我爱电影，但是我不能掌控它，你知道的。我不知道怎么同时把图片，灯光和我的情感融合到一起…啊…

SB：如果一个小朋友对你说：“我不喜欢被拍照。”你会怎么回应?

MJ:我会说: “你都不知道你有多漂亮呢~你的精神……”

SB：那你为什么对每个人都这么说除了自己呢？

MJ：我不知道。（他用一种困惑和无可奈何的语气说道）

SB：你看看你那无数女歌迷都想把她们自己奉献给你。这一定说明你英俊而富有魅力。你没感到她们时时刻刻都想和你坠入爱河吗？

MJ：当我想到这个——我从不会在电视上说——但是如果我正准备上台，想到那些女人脑子里在想什么，我就绝不要上台了。如果我突然开始想她们正在想的…性方面，或者想象我一丝不挂的样子，然后，天哪，那太尴尬了。我不能上台。那太可怕了。

SB：很多人喜欢做为性感的象征。你不喜欢它是因为你太害羞了。会有女人告诉你她们脑子里想些什么吗？

MJ：嗯……她们说过。

SB：我想和你做爱。（A同学插话:……不会被绿坝屏蔽吧……）

MJ：嗯。

（A同学：_______该反思者反思哈~ ______________）
(L同学：面壁中，勿扰。。。。。)


================================================================================================
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:20
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-9 02:48 编辑


第4节：对父亲的畏惧。


翻译：jessicayang 校对：lovelymj



SB:你现在还是对你父亲心存不满么？

MJ:我以前是这样的，我以前会对他的行为感到非常生气。我会回到自己的房间然后因为愤怒而大叫，因为我真的不明白一个人怎么会如此的残酷卑劣。就好像有时候在夜里十二点左右我正在床上睡觉。我已经唱了一整天，录了一整天的歌，不能玩也没有任何乐趣。他很晚才回家，我的门已经锁上了。他说：“打开门！我给你5秒钟开门，要不然我就一脚踢开！”然后他就开始踹门闯了进来。他问：“你为什么不签合同？”我说：“我不知道”。“签了，要不然你就有麻烦了。” 就好像 “天哪，为什么？父爱都哪去了？这就是我的父亲么？”。我说：“难道我非得这么做么？”这时候他会把你扔出去，狠狠地打你。他很粗暴。

SB: 你是从那个时候开始觉得你是他的摇钱树么？

MJ:是，绝对。

SB: 就像Macaulay Culkin 说的那样？你觉得被利用了？

MJ: 是的。有一天，（我讨厌重复），不过有一天他说，（当然我还是愿上帝保佑我的父亲，毕竟他也做了很多很好的事而且他也很有才华，可以说是天才）。但是有一天他说了这么一句：“如果你们这些家伙哪一天不唱歌了，我会立马把你们甩掉不管。”这句话深深地伤害了我。你也许觉得他会想：“这些孩子也有心啊，也有感觉的啊。” 难道他就不会想到他说这些会伤到我们么？如果我对Prince和Paris说了这样的话，他们一定会很难过。你不应该对孩子们说这些话，我永远也不会忘记。这至今还在影响我和父亲的关系。

SB: 也就是说如果有一天你不表演了，他就不会再爱你们了？

MJ: 他会立即扔下我们。他就是这么说的。

SB: 你母亲会替他解释么？会说“别听他的，他不是这个意思”这种话么？

MJ: 当父亲大发雷霆打骂我们的时候，母亲都会在旁边说：（用女声）“Joe,不，别这样，你会杀了他们的！不！Joe, 够了！”然后他开始摔家具，那太可怕了。我总说如果有一天我有了孩子我绝对不会那样做，我不会碰他们丝毫。人们总是会说受虐待的人也会虐待别人，但 这不正确，绝对不正确。我就完全相反。我做的最严厉的事就是让我的孩子站到角落里反省一小会儿，但就那样了。这已经是我的极限了。

SB: 我认为你是对的。我很讨厌人们说什么受虐者同样会施虐这样的话，这意味着你被定性为不好的人。

MJ:这种说法不真实。我总是会在心里暗暗发誓我决不会这么做，永远不会。如果在电影里或者是在商店里，我听到有人和他的孩子争吵，我会痛心而泣。因为那让我想起了我小时候是怎样被对待的。遇到那样的情况，我整个人都会垮掉，颤抖着哭泣，我承受不了，那很难。

MJ: 我至今都挺怕我的父亲。我父亲走进房间，上帝知道我说的都是实话，很多次他一出现我都会发晕。说实话我真的曾经晕倒过，我也吐过。因为他进房间会带来那种紧张感，然后我的胃就开始疼，我知道我有麻烦了。他现在不同了。岁月和年华改变了他，他看到了膝下的那些孙子女，这些都让他想做一个更好的父亲。但是对于我来说，就像一艘船已经驶过了它的航线不能改变一样，我很难接受这样一个和扶养我长大的人不同的人。他要是能早点意识到这点就好了。

SB: 那为什么你至今都怕他？

MJ: 因为伤疤依旧在那，旧时的伤痕。

SB: 所以你还是把他作为以前那样的父亲来看待。把他当做一个全新的人来看对你来说很难，是么？

MJ 我不能把他当做一个全新的人来看待。在他面前，我就像个吓坏了的孩子。有一天他对我说：“为什么你那麽怕我？”我没法回答他。我很想说：“你知道你曾做过什么么？”（声音中断）“你知道你曾对我做过什么么？”

SB: 你叫他“爸爸”还是Joseph?

MJ: 在我们的成长过程中我们不允许叫他爸爸。他说：“别叫我爸爸，我是Joseph."那就是他告诉我们的。但现在他希望我们叫他爸爸。他以前总是坚持说：” 别叫我爸爸，我是Joseph."我特别喜欢Prince和Paris叫我"Daddy",或者有时候你听到有些意大利小孩叫“Papa",或是犹太孩子 叫”Poppy", 多甜啊。你怎么可能不会为此而感到骄傲呢？那是你的血脉啊。

SB:从什么时候开始他不让你们叫他爸爸？

MJ:从很小的时候一直到Off the wall和Thriller时期。

SB: 他觉得那样显得他很专业么？

MJ: 不是。他觉得他是一个年轻的风流公子。他觉得自己很酷而不是一名父亲。他是Joseph。我觉得他肯定不喜欢我这样说……

SB:我曾经在哪看到过你母亲以前曾想过离婚，并且申请过离婚手续。

MJ:我不知道她是否正式申请过，可能有。不，不，她没有申请。可是她想要离婚，想过很多次。因为其他女人啊，还有他的粗暴什么的。但是在教义里只有在对方与其他人通奸的情况下她才可以提出离婚。虽然他之前作过而且母亲也知道，但是她是那样一个圣徒以至于她不会与他分开。她知道他在外面做的事，与别的女人纠缠不清，但是她是那样善良能够忍受他回家后还可以跟她睡在一张床上。我从来没有遇到过像母亲那样的人，她就像特里莎修努女一样。.很少会有人像她一样。

SB:所以她是一个长期忍受着痛苦，有着圣人一般善良的女人。你有没有认为她这样似乎忍受的太久了？就是说她不应该再继续忍受下去……

MJ: 我们以前也劝过她与父亲离婚。我们会说：”妈妈，跟他离婚吧。“她总会说：”别管我，不！“我们会继续说：”赶快摆脱他吧！“甚至在我们小时候我们冲她吼道要她离婚。但是多年来我们总会听到汽车接近的声音，他总是开着一辆奔驰车而且开得很慢。”Joseph回家啦，Joseph回家啦，快跑！ “每个人都会跑回自己的房间然后关上门。

SB: 你们曾经那么怕他？

MJ: 是啊。我总在说：”当我回到家穿过门厅时，我想要我的孩子们会扑过来叫爸爸，在我周围蹦蹦跳跳。现在孩子们就这样。我想要的跟我们以前完全相反，我不想孩子们见我就跑开。

＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝


第5节：对珍妮的保护


翻译: BigBee  校对: lovelymj
-----------------
SB: 现在我们来谈谈这件事，你说过你父亲会在你上台表演的时候羞辱你，他会把你弄哭，然后把你推到所有女观众都很喜欢你的舞台上。。这么做是为什么?为了在你身上显示他的淫威么？

MJ: 恩。不是的，在舞台上他不会那么做，在表演结束后，房间里会围满了女孩子。他喜欢把这些小姑娘带到房间里。通常演出结束后我们会吃点东西或干点别的，可是房间里会充斥着女孩子们咯咯的笑声。她们爱我们，会说“哦，偶的神啊。”然后握手。如果我说了一些我父亲不喜欢的话，他眼里会有这种眼神，就好像那种会吓死你的眼神。他会用所有力气狠狠的抽我巴掌，然后把我扔到女孩子们都在的那间大屋里，我哭的稀里哗啦，可是我又能做些什么呢？

SB: 你那时多大了?（Prince 在背景里说“我们才三岁呀" 笑声。。。） (嘎嘎，不好意思，这好有趣）

MJ:啊，不超过12岁，可能11岁吧，差不过11岁。

SB:所以这是你人生第一次感到羞耻？真正意义上的羞辱？

MJ:不，还有其他的。他的做法很粗暴，很残忍，很残忍。。我都不知道为什么。他很粗暴，他会把你往死里打，你知道么，他会先让你脱的精光，然后往你身上浇上油，就好像是某种仪式。他会往你身上浇油，所以当他拿电熨斗的电线尖抽你的时候（模仿鞭打的声音），你会疼的死去活来。鞭痕会遍布我的脸，后背，还有身体的其他部位，我总记得我妈妈喊道”住手，乔，你会杀了他。你会杀了他，快住手。”然后我就那么承受着，因为我什么都做不了，因此我非常憎恨他，我们都很恨他。我们彼此之间会说这些，我们也会对母亲说，我永远都不能释怀。珍妮和我，我们。。。不， 我经常说：“珍妮啊，闭上你的眼睛。”她会闭上眼睛说”我闭上眼睛啦。“然后我说”想象一下乔躺在棺材里，他死了，你觉得难过么？“她会说”我不难过。“就象这样。这就是我们还是小孩子的时候会做的事情。我们把这当作游戏来玩。你能看出我们多么憎恨他。现如今我爱他，但是他那时侯真的对我们很不好，SB，他曾经那么粗暴。”

SB: 但是你知道么？当你开始有憎恨的情绪，你的童心就已经被污染了，你有没有过“我得想办法解决这个问题，我得做些什么？”

MJ:有啊，我想要成为一个优秀的艺人，这样我就会得到别人的爱。

SB:所以你觉得通过这种方式可以改变他。你认为成为一名巨星，事业成功，被全世界的粉丝爱戴，你父亲也会爱你么？

MJ: 是的。

SB:  所以你以这种方式就能改变他。

MJ:对，我希望我能做到，我一直希望从其他人身上得到爱，因为我那么渴望，你知道么，你需要爱，你需要爱，这是最重要的事情。这就是我为那些孤儿和在医院里的孩子感到难过的原因。他们独处，医护人员把他们绑在床上。孩子们被绑着就因为没有足够的员工。我说”你们疯了么？” 我解开每一张床上的绳子，解放他们，我说”不能这么对待孩子，你们不能把他们绑起来。” 有些地方的人会把孩子们用铁链锁在墙上，比如罗马尼亚。他们就让那些孩子在自己的粪尿里睡觉。

SB: 你认为自己和那些人更相似，因为你也是那么敏感么？

MJ:对，我总和Mushki说的是 ( rabi's 的长女，当时12岁）  '因为跟我能感觉到她的痛苦，她陷入痛苦之中，当珍妮经历肥胖时期的时候，她总是哭，我的妹妹珍妮。她决定要减肥，她说”我要减肥。”  ，她真的去做了，她那时候常常不开心。

SB:你非常保护你的小妹妹，是么？

MJ: 是啊，我下定决心让她减肥，我那时侯很坏，我会嘲笑她来让她减肥，可是我并不喜欢这么做。我不喜欢，因为我知道那会让她很难过。

SB: 那你怎么使她开始减肥的呢？

MJ:我说，老妹啊，你得减肥啦，你看你胖的跟只肥牛似的，（嘎嘎，不好意思啊，不过真挺搞笑的）我会这么说她，我知道这很缺德，她会说“你给我闭嘴。”我回敬她“你才闭嘴呢。”但我下决心让我老妹看起来更棒，因为在我心底我深深的爱着她。我要她变得光彩照人，当她变成一个大明星的时候 ，你知道么，对于她那些唱片阿，我很开心，也很自豪。你知道，她成功了。

SB: 你现在仍然把她当做妹妹一样保护着么？

MJ: 是的，是的，我希望我们能更亲近些，我们的灵魂亲密无间，但是作为家人则没那么亲密。因为我们从不庆祝，所以就我们没什么理由聚在一起。但我希望那种感觉会在我们心间流淌（I wish that was instilled in us)，我喜欢你们所做的那些祈福的事情，这深深的触动这我的心灵。（他指得是安息日的晚餐）我终于明白为什么你和家人那么亲近了，这真美好。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:24
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-9 02:46 编辑

第6节：痛苦的祝福：我所想要的就是被爱

翻译: shell88    校对：lovelymj

-----------------------------
SB: 上帝总是回应你的祈祷吗?

MJ: 通常会。绝对会。这就是我信仰上帝的原因。

SB: 那么你觉得当你经历痛苦的时候，他和你同在吗？

MJ: 我所请求的都已得到。这绝非唯物（It's not materialistic）。我将要说一些以前从没说过的事，这都是事实。我没有理由和你撒谎，上帝知道我在说真话。我想要得到所有这些成功和名声，我想得到它们是因为我希望被爱。就只是这样，这就是真相。我希望人们爱我，真心地爱我，因为我从未真正感觉被爱。我是说我知道我有才能，而且如果我增强自己的技艺，也许人们能更爱我。我只是想要被爱因为我认为这很重要。看着人们的眼睛告诉他们你爱他们，这非常重要。.

(省略：SB胡说八道)

SB: 但另一方面，如果你童年时得到了大量的爱，你可能不会这样努力工作以取得成功。

MJ: 是的，这就是为何我并不想改变任何事，因为它以不同的方式解决了。

SB: 你可以把负面的东西转变成祝福? So you were able to turn the neglect into a blessing?

MJ:是的。

SB: 我记得在你成为巨星之后，有人问Paul McCartney："Michael Jackson是否会象其它摇滚明星那样-上帝保佑，30岁死于吸毒呢？”Paul说： “不，Michael不会。 他的个性不是那样，他不咒骂，他不喝酒。” 你是否知道你有那种使自己不会被名声和成功所毁灭的特质呢？

(省略：SB胡说八道)

MJ:是的。我总是很坚定。我对想作的事还有想达到的目标总有前瞻性（vision）。没有一样东西能够阻止我。我精力专注，知道自己想要什么、想达到什么。我不会走上岔路。即便有时我遭遇挫折，我仍会继续比拼耐力以实现目标。我会保证自己在正轨上。我专心致志。

SB: ( 关于童年的一个长问题) 你会以不同的方式去做吗?

MJ: 不，我过去的经历使我对其它孩子（的感受）非常敏感。我很高兴（我有这样的能力）。

==========================================================================

第7节：ROSE FINE: MICHAEL的童年导师

翻译: shell88    校对：lovelymj

s同学的话：这段是关于MJ的家庭教师，和一些关于老年人、慈善的看法。
他的童年虽然悲惨，却也得到了无条件的爱。那些对他好的人，他都终生铭记。

----------------------------

Rabi和Mike谈论空中旅行.

MJ:它给我留下了严重的精神创伤.

SB: 什么?

MJ:湍流，身处其中你以为活不了了。

SB: 还记得你跟我说过的犹太导师的故事吗？

MJ:Rose Fine?

SB: 你有一次在电话里说过，她常常对你说，那一次飞机上人人都将要死去了，那时有一个修女在飞机上。

MJ: 她说：“我们很好，我们坐在飞机上，我们如此有信念。我查过了，飞机上没有修女。”我总是相信那些。

SB: 你还在寻找那名修女吗？

MJ:我想过! 我从未在飞机上见过修女. 她 [Rose Fine] 帮了我许多，因为她握住我的手，拥抱我. 演出结束后我会跑回房间，我们一起读书，喝热牛奶，我非常需要这些。她总对我说：“门是开着的。”她总是会让她的门敞开。

SB: 一个人可否象爱自己的骨肉那样去爱其他孩子？你爱孩子们就象爱Prince和Paris那样吗?

MJ:绝对可以.

SB: 我总可以注意到一件令人印象深刻的事，当我说“Prince和Paris很美丽”，你总说“不。所有孩子都很美丽”。你不让我只是称赞Prince和Paris。

MJ:对我来说是这样的。我在所有孩子身上都看到了美....对我来说他们都是美丽的. 他们如此美丽，我爱他们所有人 - 平等地. 我常和不同意我的人们争论。他们说你应该爱自己的孩子更多些.

SB: Rose Fine, 虽然她不是你的亲生母亲，但给了你许多母爱?

MJ: 我非常需要那些. 我小时候很少和母亲在一起，我有一个特别好的母亲，我把她看作天使，但我经常离家，总在不停巡演，走遍了美国、国外、俱乐部，总是离家。（Rose Fine）帮助了我许多. 我们（Janet和我）照顾她直至她去世. 她最近刚去世。

SB: 你是否认为我们这个项目的背景文字中应该提到她？

MJ:是的，一定要这样，她需要被铭记。

SB: 她多大年纪了?

MJ:她从来不告诉我她的年龄。我想她有九十多岁了。她过去常说“我退休后就会告诉你我的年龄。”但当她退休时还是没有告诉我。她从Jackson 5第一次职业巡演时直至我18岁和我们在一起. 第一次巡演是在我们有大的突破-第一首热门单曲之后。她总有权力，比如说如果演唱会开始太晚，她有权力中止演出，因为教育部门会说“孩子不能超过法定时间”。她总让（演出）继续。她不会伤害观众。

SB: 她在白天教你知识吗?

MJ:恩.

SB: 常规的科目? 数学?英文?她一起教你们5个?

MJ:是的, 一起, 3个小时. 她教Janet, 所有人.

SB: 跟我多说些她的事情。.

MJ: 好的，Rose今年去世了. Janet和我支付了她的护理和医院治疗费用, 如果她的电视机坏了，电费或家里的修理费用我们都付账。现在她的丈夫病了，我也在照顾他。我们感觉她就象我们的母亲，照顾母亲是应该的。

SB: 你真的那样感觉?

MJ:绝对的。她不仅仅是一个教师。她去世时我在很远的地方，这令我很生自己的气，我不能赶去。我当时在瑞士，Evvy（Michael的秘书）在电话里告诉我她去世了. 我说“什么？我在瑞士，我无法......"我生自己的气，但我还是尽我所能。

令人伤心的是，我去看她，说“Fine夫人，我是Michael”，她说“不要说你是Michael，你不是Michael”。他们的脑部出现问题，然后就不记得你了。变老并不总是美的。这很伤感。

SB: 一个孩子会如何应对这些事呢? （...跳过...）你认为变老是一种诅咒吗？

MJ: 在某种意义上，当身体开始生病的时候。但我曾见到过当老人重返童年，他们变得非常爱玩耍好似孩童一般。我与老人们有很好的关系因为他们有孩子般的特质。当我去医院时，我总能设法偷溜进另一个房间去和老年人说话。我两天前去医院时还这么做来着, 他们很甜蜜，他们象孩子一样欢迎你。他们说“进来”然后我们谈话。他们单纯而又甜蜜。

老年人和孩子非常相像。他们无忧无虑，自由玩耍，单纯而又甜蜜。这是一种心灵的感觉。我造访老人院不象孤儿院那么多。许多人有老年痴呆症，不认得人。但我与老年人的关系还是相当不错。我喜欢和老年人交谈，他们可以告诉你他们小时候的故事以及世界在那时是什么样子，我喜欢这些。很久以前在纽约有一个老犹太人告诉我“要永远对你的天赋心存感激，永远为不幸的人们付出，帮助其他人".  ( 这位老人告诉Mike一个故事,小的时候父亲经常给他一些衣服和面包,让他放在别人的门前,敲门后就跑开,这样别人就不知道是谁做的)

SB: 你曾尝试作匿名慈善行为吗?

MJ: 是的,不会张扬. 他 [Michael上面提到的人] 说真正的慈善是发自心底而发而不是为了获得赞誉, 他跑开后人们就不知道谁留下了那些东西,仿佛是上帝留在那的,不是吗? 这真是太美好了,我从未忘记这个故事.我听到这个故事的时候大约11岁.他是一位老者,非常甜蜜,一个犹太人,我记得.

Michael和SB讨论犹太宗教,以及Rose是犹太人等等;
Michael说 : 她教给我书本和阅读的精彩世界. 如果没有她,我就不是今天的我.我对她很感激,这就是为什么我将新专辑献给她.

SB: 你是否认为她把你看作儿子?

MJ:她称我为她的儿子. 每次上飞机时你都能看到7个黑人小孩子和一个黑人父亲,都是非洲式蓬蓬发型,然后一位白人犹太老妇人在后面,他们会拦住她,问"你是谁?",她就会说"我是母亲",她每次都那么说,然后他们就放行了.甜蜜的故事.她很特别.我需要她.

SB: 她给了你无条件的爱吗?

MJ:是的.

SB: 你认为在两个没有血缘关系的人之间也可以存在无条件的爱吗?

MJ:哦,天啊,当然了. 我在她身上学到了这一点,我曾见过,也曾经历过.那跟血缘、种族、教义、肤色都无关.爱就是爱,它打破所有界限,你能看到它.我在孩子的眼睛中看到它.当我看着孩子,我看到无助的小狗.他们真甜美.怎么有人能伤害他们?他们那样美妙.

SB: 她今年去世了,这意味着你必须应对悲伤.一个孩子如何应对悲伤呢? 孩子生活在天堂里,那是我们试图描绘的完美世界.成人大多在他们的战争,嫉妒和世故中被腐蚀了,然后死亡突然降临,即使孩子也必须面对死亡.你如何面对死亡?一个孩子又如何面对死亡呢?


MJ: 是的.我不得不面对死亡,这很难.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:27
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-12 07:22 编辑

第8节：被耶和华见证人教会所拒绝

翻译: think2    校对：lovelymj


本章节最开始引述了Rabbi Boteach 在beliefnet.com上发布的一篇关于MJ和SABBATH的文章。下面是MJ和SB的对话。

SB: 你认为对骄傲的憎恨仍然是你的宗教教养带来的结果吗？
Do you think a hatred of pride is still a relic of your religious upbringing?

MJ: 宗教曾带给我很多伤害，也给了我许多帮助。

SB：宗教是怎么伤害你的？

MJ: 嗯。。。[长时间沉默]。过去我做了一些事情，当时我并未意识到这是违背了宗教信仰。为此我受到了谴责，这差点把我毁了。作为一个艺术家，我在音乐里加了一些东西，而我并没有意识到这和教义相抵触。所以当教会的人指责我的时候，真的伤了我的心。这几乎毁了一切。我母亲是见证。

SB：你是指他们的反对和拒绝？

MJ: 当我在motown25周年演出上第一次表演月球漫步时，那些人说我的舞蹈滑稽可笑而且肮脏。我持续表演了几个月，然后他们说“你永远都不能再像那样跳舞。”我回答道99.9%的舞蹈在于腰部动作。他们回应道“我们不想你这么做。”所以后来我有很长一段时间跳舞不扭动腰部。 然后，我在颤栗短片中使用了幽灵鬼怪，他们又说：“这有如恶魔般的玄幻，杰克逊兄弟（Brother Jackson）不能跳这种神秘的舞蹈。” 我哭着打电话给律师：“快把颤栗的录像带销毁，把它毁掉。” 可是我的律师违背了我的意愿，所以今天人们见到了Thriller短片。教会的人让我感觉很糟，所以我命令我的人去毁了它。

（SB胡说一通）

SB: 所以，你看到了宗教的两面性。好的方面它教会你了不要骄傲而要谦逊，然而你也见识到了你所说得宗教的狭义精神性和批判性。

MJ:因为他们有时会以错误的方式去辨别事物，我并不认为上帝想这样做。比如万圣节，我很多年都没过万圣节，但现在我去过。我会去挨家挨户讨糖，然后人们会送你糖果，这是多么美好的事啊。它把整个世界联系在一起，而我们的世界需要更多这样的举动。

SB：那你会带着帕里斯和王子去参与“不给糖果就捣蛋”（trickortreating）活动吗？

MJ: 当然，我们一家人都会在附近的区域晃悠，我们给其他家庭分发糖果。我想要孩子们看到人们可以很善良友好。我们把糖果放在袋子里，然后（轻声说）我会把孩子们的糖果换成糖果眼球。

SB: （唧唧歪歪）所以“万圣节的本质是让孩子亲身感受陌生人的善良。”我喜欢这个说法。这个想法很好，它把“不给糖果就捣蛋”的意义升华了。

MJ：我在假面之后哭泣，当我和孩子们一起出去，然后人们说““打开你的袋子” ，我真的会哭泣，我会想：看看我一直错过了什么。我以前不曾知道这（如此美好）。我注视着他们的脸，他们正在赠你礼物。这太美好了。然后孩子们跑来，他们打开袋子说：“ 哦，快看这个小礼物” 。他们这种反应太可爱了。我觉得万圣节是个很好的节日。我为这部分美国文化感到自豪。

======================


第9节：迈克尔是否把自己当成是上帝的选民？  迈克尔是否拥有特殊的治愈他人的能力？（healing power）

翻译: think2   校对：lovelymj


SB: 耶稣说：“把受苦难的小孩带到我身旁。Suffer little children to come unto me”。他有很多关于孩子的至理格言，而大多数的圣徒都被孩子们环绕。你有没有把自己等同于那样的人呢？你是否觉得除了音乐才能之外，上帝赐予了你更多的东西？

MJ：是的，绝对是这样。

SB. （唧唧歪歪）你是否觉得上帝赐予了你某种拯救他人的力量？

MJ: 是的。

SB：当你和Gavin(这个杀千刀的孩子)说话时，你会觉得并你不仅仅在和他说话，而是在帮他治疗？

MJ: 我知道我正在救他，我看到孩子们让我沐浴在他们的爱当中。他们只想触摸我、拥抱我，他们抓着我哭泣，不肯放手。他们甚至不知道我是谁。当我出去闲逛，或者在公共场所露面的时候，你有时能看到母亲们抱起她们的婴儿放到我的臂弯中。她们会说：“ 摸摸我的孩子，摸摸我的孩子，抱抱他们。”这不是英雄崇拜，不是宗教想表达的那样的偶像崇拜。It is not hero worship, like religions try to say, like idol worship.

SB：这不算偶像崇拜吗? 为什么？因为那些人不是在膜拜你？因为他们通过这种行为可以使自己感觉好起来？通过接近你，他们会感觉自己漂浮在空气中，或者几乎可以在水上行走。难道这不是崇拜吗？

MJ：这不是崇拜，因为我的宗教教导我们不应该这样做。假设我去了我的教堂，他们绝不会像你的教会那样对待我。

（Rabbi 描绘了MJ 去他的教堂的情形）

MJ: 那些人会在宗教仪式结束后和善的对我说：“杰克逊兄弟，你还好吗？” 可是他们永远不会拥抱你然后说：“ 我们爱你” 。他们会感到这是偶像崇拜，而你不应该这样做。可这是错的，这样就过分了。说“谢谢，我们非常爱你”没有什么错。

Feeling Godlike, Connecting to the Divine

SB: Do you have fun when you perform and do your music?

MJ: Yes. I love it. If it wasn’t fun I wouldn’t do it. I do it because I truly love it. There is no greater bliss than dancing and performing. It is like a celebration and when you are caught up in that place, where certain performers go when they become one with the music, one with the audience, if you are on that level it is like being in a trance, it just takes over. You start to play off each other and start to know where you are going before you get there. They have got to know where you are taking it and respond. It’s like when the birds go and they all know where they’re going. Or like fish. They are telepathic, they are on the same line. That’s what happens when you perform, you are at one with the musicians and the dance and the music and you are in this trance. And, man, you have got ‘em. They are in the palm of your hand. It's unbelievable. You feel you are transformed.

SB: What is the energy which takes you there? Is it divine?

MJ: It is divine, it is pure, it is revelation, without making is sound spiritual or religious, but it is a divine energy. Some people call it the spirit, like when a spirit comes into the room. Some people look down on it. Religions sometime look down on it because they try to say it’s demonic, it’s the cult, it’s the devil. It isn’t; it is God-like. It is pure God-like energy. You feel God’s light.

(rabbi blathers about the adulation being shown Michael)

MJ: When I perform certain performances, like Motown 25, or when I did Billie Jean and the Moonwalk for the first time on the stage, and the audience, I’d do a little step and they would scream and you’d flicker your hand and …”Agggggghhhhhh,” whatever you do, I am like caught in a trance with it all. I am like feeling it but I don’t hear it. I’m playing everything off feeling. At the end of the piece I am done and you open your eyes and see the response, you are surprised because you were in another world. I was at one with the moment, working moment, right in the moment.

SB: So you weren’t doing it to conform to anybody. Maybe that’s your power as a performer. It was never about what people wanted, about conditioning, about accommodating what other people wanted.

MJ: No.

SB: Can you teach people how to get there? If there was any bitterness or hatred in your heart in moments like that, if they are, as you say, divine, do you find it just empties out?

MJ: It just empties out. You are above it all. That’s why I love it because you are going to a place where [there is] nothing nobody can do. It’s gone, the point of no return. It’s so wonderful. You have taken off. You can feel it, and that doesn’t mean…and everybody else who’s up there with you play off of that, the audience play off of that…
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:29
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 03:17 编辑

第11节：Michael’s Relationship with Religion  MJ与宗教

翻译: gummykitty

lovelymj的话：宗教这部分的英文我理解起来比较困难，多亏gummy网友参与翻译。万分感谢。小女子不敢班门弄斧，所以把gummy的译文原封不动的贴上来，包括英文原文。


(Rabbi talks about how he encouraged MJ to return to Jehovah’s Witnesses)
(SB 谈他如何鼓励MJ重返耶和华见证者教会)

SB: Michael, I saw in some article that you once compared the pressures on Jesus to those on a modern celebrity. Do you remember that?
Michael, 我看到有文章说你把当代名人所受的压力与耶稣所受的做比。你记得这事儿吗？

MJ: No, I don’t. When was it?
我不记得。什么时候的事儿？

SB: I don’t know. Could have been made up. Do you have a relationship with Jesus?
我不知道,可能又是杜撰。你信耶稣吗？

MJ: Jesus, yes. Absolutely. But you believe in Jesus, don’t you?
耶稣，我绝对信。你也信耶稣，是吗？

SB: No, not in his Messiahship or divinity.
不，我不信他是救世主或是神。

MJ: You don’t believe that he existed?
你不信真有耶稣？

SB: Oh, we believe that he existed. We believe he was a good man, a devout Jew, a great moral teacher. But we don’t believe he was the son of God or that he was the Messiah.  I did a Larry King show just recently with one of Billy Graham’s daughters about this.
哦，我们相信有耶稣这人。我们相信他是个好人，一个虔诚的犹太教徒，伟大的道德导师。但我们不相信他是神的儿子、是救世主。最近我还上了Larry King的访谈节目和Billy Graham牧师的女儿讨论这个。（译注：Billy Graham牧师是美国当代著名的基督教福音布道家，中文名字为葛培理。他的子女也都在福音教派中有广大的影响。）

Do you feel an affinity with Jesus as a personality? Do you feel that he was a Kidult, because he is portrayed as a very gentle creature who had a beautiful moral message, and was soft and vulnerable on the outside? Was he like the stereotype of someone with a child at his center?
你感到自己和耶稣在性格上有相似之处吗？同样童心未泯？耶稣被描绘为一个非常温和的人，为世人带来美好的道德教诲却外表纤柔。他就是赤子之心的典型代表？

MJ: Yes, absolutely.
绝对是的。

SB: And that’s why he loved being around children?
所以他喜欢和孩子们在一起?

MJ: I think if I sat in a room with him I would follow him everywhere he went, feel his presence. I would behave just like a child, like Gandhi.
我觉得如果我和耶稣同处一室，我会一直跟着他，感受他的存在。我会表现的如同一个孩子，像甘地那样。

SB: Can you see him laughing?
你能想象他（耶稣）大笑吗？

MJ: Yes, and Gandhi when he is giggling like a kid…it is so sweet. This man came out of nowhere and he led the whole nation. He held no political rank, no government rank. I think that is real power. That’s incredible. That was a phenomenon—Gandhi. It’s amazing, that was a phenomenal movie, did you see it.
是的，还有甘地。他傻笑起来就像个孩子，太可爱了。甘地是一个从名不见经传到领导整个国家走向独立的人。他不谋求政治地位、不担任政府公职。我认为那是真正的力量，让人难以置信、异乎寻常的力量。电影《甘地传》非常棒，你看过吗？

SB: [Yes.] What biblical stories do you find inspiring?
我看过。圣经里对你最有启发性的故事是什么？

MJ: I love the Sermon on the Mount. I love the story when the Apostles are arguing amongst themselves about who is the greatest and Jesus says, “Unless you humble yourself like this little child, be childlike…” I thought that was the perfect thing to say. Return to innocence.
我喜欢耶稣的登山宝训，喜欢当使徒们争论谁将为大时，耶稣唤来一个孩子，教导他们首先要如孩童般谦卑，来日方能进入天国。我觉得耶稣说得太好了，他要人们回归纯真。（译注：登山宝训指《圣经‧马太福音》中第五到第七章记载的耶稣在山上所做的演讲。）

SB: Did anyone tell you that it appeared to them you were trying to create a Garden of Eden here [Neverland], your own vision of a perfect paradise, a refuge from what you saw was the adult insanity of the world?
有没有人告诉你他们觉得你是在试图在Neverland创建一个伊甸园，实现你心中的天国美景，远离成人世界的疯狂。

MJ: You were the first one.
你是第一个这么说的人。

SB: Does the story of Adam and Eve have any special meaning for you?
亚当夏娃的故事对你有特殊意义吗？

MJ: Of course. Of course.
那当然了。

SB: Did you see the childlike qualities in them straight away?
你一下就在他们身上看到儿童的特质，是吗？

MJ: Yes, I wish I could have seen it. Was it symbolism? Is it real? Did it happen? I'm confused sometimes that there is a loophole. I had questions that sometimes even the elders couldn't answer.
是的。我希望我能够目睹他们的故事。那是象征意义还是真的？到底有没有发生过？有时我对故事里的漏洞感到迷惑。我的问题连长老们都无法回答。

SB: Did you ask them lots of questions about the Bible?
你问长老们很多关于圣经的问题？

MJ: Oh yeah, I'm the kind of guy who used to grab the microphone and say, "well, what about this and what about that?" They would say, “Brother Jackson, we will talk to you later.” They would come up with this other funny kinda answer that wouldn’t drive the point home.
哦，是的。那时我会抓起话筒问这问那。他们则说“Jackson兄弟，我们等一会儿交流”。后来他们会给我一个可笑的解释，答不到点子上去。

SB: Adam and Eve are two perfect beings who were like children. They are created as adults, but their situation is unique because they are also children. (rabbi discusses Adam and Eve). So was this always a story that meant something to you?
亚当和夏娃的确是两个如孩童般纯真的人。他们被创造为成年人，而他们的处境又很独特，因为心智上他们是儿童。（SB谈论亚当夏娃，省略细节。）所以亚当夏娃的故事总对你有特殊意义？

MJ: But God tested them. And if you are God you should know the outcome. And if you are God, why test if you create a perfect being that should not be able to do any wrong? And why judge and thrust such anger on them and run them away and tempt them with a snake?   Would a God do such a thing?  Would I do that to your children?  No, I wouldn't. I am not here trying to judge God or criticize him in any way.  But sometimes I think it is a symbolism to teach us certain lessons. I don’t know if it really happened. I wouldn’t take your little baby or any of them and have something see if they would do right or wrong. And the not have the two kids…was it incest? And they were two boys, how did they have children? And all of those things that they couldn’t answer for me.
可是上帝试探他们。如果你是万能的主，你就该知道试探的结果。如果你是万能的主，既然创造了完美的人又为何要试探他们。为什么让蛇去引诱他们，事后又指责他们，对他们动怒，把他们赶走？上帝真那样做了？ 我想我不会那么做。我绝对没有评价或者批评上帝的意思，但有时我觉得亚当夏娃是有象征意义的故事，意在警示世人，不见得确有其事。我不会故意试探小孩子，也不会让两个孩子去。。。乱伦。长老们都无法回答我的那些问题。

SB: These are the questions you were asking the elders?
你问长老们这些问题？

MJ: Uhuh.
是的。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:30
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 07:11 编辑

第12节：Religion and finding God in Rituals 宗教及在仪式中发现神

翻译: gummykitty

SB:I always say that the main purpose of religion is to teach you in your twenties what you only find out in your seventies-skip You know all that at eighty, but you should know it in your teens and twenties, so you don't squander your life.
没有宗教，某些道理人们要到七八十岁了才能自行悟出。所以我总说宗教的主要目的是趁人们还很年轻时就把这些道理教给他们，好叫他们不要虚度光阴。

MJ:Right, I see it, I see it. That's what we're all talking about.
是的，我懂得这点。这是我们一直在谈论的。

SB: You're one of the few people who seems to be religious without practicing, meaning, you have a very deep-seated sense of spirituality, but you don't undertake many religious rituals. You'll tell me things like, "Although I once believed God is in a Church, I now believe that God is everywhere, he's in my heart...I now find God in those moments I spend with my children, I find God in the innocent."
你属于极少数在世俗生活中也能保持虔诚的人。即便不太参加宗教仪式，你仍然能做很深层的灵修。你跟我说“尽管我一度相信神存在于教会中，现在我相信神无处不在，他就在我心中… 我在和我孩子共同度过的时光中发现神，我在纯真无邪的人身上看到神。”

MJ: Yeah it's true, it's true.
没错，是这样的。

============================================================================

第13节：KARMA AND JUSTICE 因果报应和公正

翻译: gummykitty


SB: I really like the fact that at Neverland the Security are called Safety...it's on their badges, uniforms and hats.
Neverland的警卫叫做“安全员”，我喜欢这个名称。他们的胸卡、制服和帽子上都有“安全员”的字样。

MJ:I don't know.
我没注意过这个。

SB:The fact that it says "Safety" rather than "Security" it's like, "We are not here to keep the world out, but simply to ensure the safety of everyone who is visiting here." It's less intimidating and more humane.
Rabbi talks about the sense of justice in children-skip- On one hand children have this very strong sense of justice, and on the other hand we see how mean people get away with things and no one stops them.
不叫他们“警卫”而是“安全员”意味着他们不是要把整个世界挡在门外，而仅仅要保证每个到访宾客的安全。这听起来少了威胁性，多了份人情味。
（SB接下去谈论儿童的正义感，具体文字省略。大意为：一方面孩子有着非常强的正义感，另一方面我们也看到恶人如何逃脱制裁。）

MJ: It happens all the time. I think justice is important because there are many injustices in the world and I hate injustice. "I am tired of injustice" is the opening to one of my songs on my last album, called Scream. That's the first line I say. There's a line where Janet says, "Oh my God I can't believe what I saw on the TV this evening. I was disgusted by all the injustice," because I wanted people to know about that and people get away with it and I don't believe in karma. I think that is bunch of crap, because so many mean-spirited, evil people are on top of the world and doing well and people love them, no matter how evil they are.
这司空见惯。我认为正义非常重要，这世上有太多的不公，而我痛恨不公。我上一张专辑里有一首歌叫《尖叫》（Scream），开头第一句就是“我厌倦了不公”。那歌里还有一句Janet的唱词是“哦，我的上帝，我无法相信今夜在电视上的所见。我对一切不公感到恶心”。我写这些歌词是因为我想让人们意识到非正义的存在。我不信因果报应，那纯粹是胡说。那么多恶人功成名就，作威作福，而大众竟然还热爱他们。

SB: I love it when you make strong statements like that.
我喜欢你的强烈论点。

MJ: Well, I'm sorry, it's crap. Karma is a theory like any other theory that some human made up.
抱歉我的过激用词。因果报应就是别有居心的人捏造出来的。

SB:Well, "what goes around comes around" is ok, because there's great truth to that. But karma could actually be evil because karma says that handicapped children did something bad in previous life.
“不是不报，时候未到”这话也许有点道理，可因果报应论可能真的很邪恶，因为照这种说法有些孩子生来残疾是因为他们在前世做恶。

MJ:That's a fine line and I'm sorry for talking like that. But I hate whoever says some thing like that. A child did something in a past life so God is going to handicap them? There were all these orphans in this one country coming to America to be adopted. The plane crashed. Every child on the plane died. Why? If you could save those kids, if you were in Heaven, you would say, "This one is not going down. Maybe another one, but not this one." I know I would.
这两者间有着细微的差别，而我痛恨因果报应的说法。神因为一个孩子前世的行为而要他在今世残疾？某国的一群孤儿被领养，在飞往美国的途中飞机坠毁了，所有的孩子都死了。为什么会这样？如果你是神，你肯定会救那些孩子，你会说“不要让这架飞机坠毁”。我绝不忍心让那些孤儿死去。

SB: Did you ever have Eastern spiritual gurus who came to you and said, "Michael children get hit by trucks because they fornicated in a previous life?"
有没有东方的精神导师对你说“Michael, 有的孩子被卡车撞是因为他们上辈子私通”？

MJ:No, and if they did I would be furious and I would give them all the reasons why that is a bunch of crap. That's a doodoo. That's a theory like any other man's theory about the universe. Some people believe in the Big Bang, which I don't, and some people believe in the Creation, that story with Adam and Eve, that this universe isn't an accident. To say this universe was created by a Big Bang or an accident is to say, "Okay, I want you to take a car engine and we are going to take each piece apart and we are going to put it in a bath tub, and I want you to shake it up." You can shake that tub 100 years and it will never become the perfect engine. All the pieces come together and make an engine, that is like saying the Big Bang theory, and there was a big explosion and we got children and trees, and plants, and the air we breath, and oxygen. Somebody had to create this, a designer had to create this. From our lashes to our mouths to our digestive system. Don't you agree?
没有。如果他们那样说我会感到愤怒，我会努力驳斥。就好象其他的人类宇宙观，有人相信宇宙诞生于大爆炸理论，而我不信那个。我相信神创造万物，相信亚当夏娃，相信这个宇宙不是随机产生的。大爆炸理论就好比说把一台汽车引擎拆开，把所有零件放到澡盆里不断晃动。就算你摇上一百年，那些零件也不可能随机的就拼成原来的引擎。同样道理，孩子们、大树、植物，还有我们呼吸的空气，都不会是从大爆炸中随机产生的。从我们的睫毛到消化系统，太多神奇的东西，肯定有人设计并且创造了所以这些。你同意吗？

SB: That's the most important of all religions beliefs, that God is the origin of life.
神即生命之源，这是所有宗教信仰中最重要的。

MJ:When I used to go door to door [Witnessing for the Jehovah's Witnesses Church] and people would say, "We are atheists," [I'd think] what? They don't believe in....I heard it a lot and I had a brother who was an atheist for a while but I think he isn't now. Tito was an atheist even after being raised as a strict Jehovah's Witness. I know some of the famous directors, the guy who directed Singing In The Rain and who won academy awards, Stanley Donen....
过去我挨家挨户做耶和华见证者传道的时候，有人会说他们是无神论者，我就会想不通他们为何没有信仰。。。那话我听得太多了，我哥哥Tito也曾那样，要知道我们可是从小就接受严格耶和华见证者训导的。我知道有些著名导演，比如拍《雨中曲》的Stanley Donen...（没说完，估计说Donen也是无神论者。）

SB: So what arguments did you have for people when you were Pioneering when they told you that they were atheists?
碰上这样宣称自己是无神论者的人，你摆出哪些论据呢？

MJ: I tried to bring out the miracles of life, the children, look into their eyes, our bodies, how it all works just right, this can't happen on its own, come on, no way.  Then there are the questions I have about why we are here and why we are allowed to destroy each other.  Because we are the only species who destroys their own.  Every species on this planet...I don't understand how all that injustice takes place. Why didn't something in heaven stop the Holocaust or some of the great genocides that happen in the world, from the lynchings and slavery, to all the great problems, to Stalin, to...? I hate to say this but Napoleon, too. He gets praised for all his genocide [I assume Michael means all the wars he caused], whereas Hitler gets called the Devil, which he was. But they both did the same thing. But one was doing it for his country and the other one was too! But a lot of people died with Napoleon. There are statues of Napoleon.
我列举了生命中的奇迹。比如说孩子，仔细看他们的眼睛；又比如说我们的身体，各个组成部分协同工作准确无误。这些都不可能是偶然形成的，不可能。我还会想人类为何成为现在的样子，为什么自相残杀。地球上所有的物种里，大概只有人类如此互相杀戮。我对所有那些不公感到难以理解。为什么上天不曾阻止二战大屠杀和历史上其他的种族灭绝，还有奴隶制和私刑等等。很遗憾拿破仑也有问题。人们称颂他，而他发动了那么多战争使无数人死亡，这和被叫做魔鬼的希特勒也没什么两样，都是假国家之名。不同的是人们追随拿破仑，还给他立像。

SB talks about that-no one was ever as evil as Hitler - and then talks about Napoleon.
SB谈到希特勒，说他的邪恶无人能及。接着又说拿破仑。

MJ: But he [Napoleon] died a lonely man on an island all alone.
可是拿破仑被流放，在岛上孤独死去。

SB: Do you enjoy reading about history?
你喜欢读历史书？

MJ: I do enjoy reading about history, but I don't know what to believe and what not to believe. Because I know how much that is written about me is twisted...about me....how much stuff in history is twisted. Because the way this country was taken away from the Indians and the way Australia was taken from the black and apartheid, how they killed so many blacks.
是的，但我对哪些可以相信哪些是谎言感到困惑。因为我知道有多少关于我自己的歪曲报道，那历史书里又有多少是谎言和欺骗呢。要知道美国这个国家是从印第安人手里夺过来的，澳大利亚也是白人从原著民那里抢来的，他们杀了多少黑人呐。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:33
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 07:12 编辑

Rabbi babbles about native Americans and indigenous peoples and all the disease that was brought by the Europeans.
SB就美洲印第安人和其他地区的原住民，以及欧洲人在殖民过程中传播各种疾病做了一番长篇大论。

MJ: I hate it. I'm sorry I hate it.
我痛恨那些，抱歉，可是我痛恨那些。

SB: You know, when I was in Australia recently they had this big debate whether the gouv. should finally apologize to the Aboriginal people.
我最近去了趟澳洲，那里在辩论政府是否应当向原住民正式道歉。

MJ:I know all about this. I told Frank about it, remember? [ Frank Cascio was in the room during that convo.] They said that if they apologize then they have to pay them the way they are paying the Jews for the Holocaust. And they don't want to pay them so they can't say they are sorry. They made a mistake because they are worried that they will stick their hand out and ask for money.
我知道这事，还跟Frank说过。（他们谈话时Frank Cascio也在场。译注：Cascio兄弟自孩提时代就是MJ的朋友，多次随他旅行。）他们说如果政府道歉就要像赔偿犹太人大屠杀幸存者那样赔偿原住民。政府不愿付钱，所以当然也不肯道歉。澳洲政府那样做不对，我不认为原住民会伸手要钱。

SB: Do you think they should?
你觉得原住民应该争取赔偿吗？

MJ: Absolutely, and I give the Jews credit for standing up for the past. Yes. The Germans paid the Jews $47 billion a year in taxes because of the Holocaust.
绝对应该。这点犹太人就做得很好。德国人每年从税收中拨470亿美元作为二战时犹太人大屠杀的赔偿。

SB- argues that it's nowhere near that much and goes on babbling.
SB说实际没那么多。

MJ: But I hate when people to this day think that all the Germans are bad because they are not.
可是我讨厌人们至今还认为所有德国人都是坏蛋。德国人不都是坏蛋。

SB *babbling* about Germans and this and that.
SB说了一堆有关德国人的话。

==================================================

第14节：Racism, religion and anti-semitism   种族主义、宗教及反犹主义

翻译: gummykitty


SB: So you have been the voice for a lot of people who have been left out. Like in the song "They Don't Care About Us," the main message being they don't care about who? The poor? The third world?
你一直以来为弱势群体代言，比方说那首《他们不在乎我们》(They Don't Care About Us)。“我们”到底指那些人？穷人还是第三世界?

MJ:Well I'd say, they don't care about us, those who are treated unjustly, those who have been bastardized, being called "nigger", being called the word that they misunderstood me for when I said those who say "kike" to people. When I was a little kid, Jews, we had Jewish lawyers and Jewish accountants and they slept in my bed next to me and they would call each other "kike". I said, "What is that?" and they said, "That's the bad word for Jews. For blacks they say 'nigger'". I said, "Ohhh." So I always knew when people had been bastardized, they've been called "nigger," they've been called "kike." That's what I'm saying and they used it. They took it all wrong. I would never...you know?
“我们”指所有遭受社会不公的人们，所有受歧视被辱骂成黑鬼或犹太佬的人。人们误解了我在歌词里用犹太佬（kike）这个词的用意。我还小的时候，我们家请了犹太人律师，我们的会计也是犹太人。我们共处一室，他们互相戏称对方是kike。我问他们那个词的意思，他们说那是个对犹太人有侮辱性的称呼，就和叫黑人黑鬼差不多。所以我知道遭受歧视被辱骂是怎么回事。我在歌里想要表达的就是反对歧视，人们完全理误解了，我从不反犹。

SB: You were trying to stand up for those with no voice?
你那是在为所有弱势群体呐喊。

MJ:Yeah, who don't have a voice. I would never teach hatred, ever. That's not what I'm about.
是的，为弱者代言。但我绝不会教人去憎恨，我不是那样的人。

SB: Are you proud to me an American? When you did all those concerts abroad in foreign countries, did you feel like you were some sort of American representative?
你为自己是美国人感到自豪吗？当你在国外开演唱会的时候，你是不是觉得自己在代表美国？

MJ: I hope you don't take this wrong, what I am about to say, but I feel I belong to the world and I hate to take sides. Even though I am an American and I was born in this country and there are a lot of things about America I am proud of, and there are a lot of things I am not proud of...ignorance...like that [Norman] Rockwell painting the little girl trying to get to school to learn and they were throwing stuff at her.  (Rockwell painted a black girl going to a recently desegregated school surrounded by Federal marshals who were protecting her from attack)
我希望你不要误解我接下来要说的话。我觉得我属于整个世界，而不是具体某个国家。尽管我在美国出生成长，美国也确实有很多让我骄傲的东西，但还是有很多让我失望的方面。比方说愚昧无知。Norman Rockwell有一副画中，一个小姑娘去上学，而周围的人朝她扔东西。（Rockwell画了一个黑人女孩去一所刚刚取消种族隔离的学校上学，学校周围密布警力以确保她不受攻击。）

MJ: I don't understand racism. My mother- and she is an angel and a saint-she was pulling out of the market and it was a block from my house in Encino and she was in her Mercedes. And my mother loves everybody, and this white man in a car screams out, "Go back to Africa, you n.igger." It hurt me so much that that happened to my mother...this was no more than five tears ago, because he was jealous.
我无法理解种族主义。我母亲就像天使或者圣徒一般的善良，待人宽厚。某天她开着奔驰车去我们Encino住所附近的市场，正要离开的时候一个白人男子朝她吼到“黑鬼滚回非洲去”。这事最多也就是五年前发生的。那人出于嫉妒侮辱我母亲，深深刺痛了我的心。

I know stories of my brothers in their Rolls-Royces get out of the car and lock the door and when they come back they find that some guy had take a key and scratched the car because there is a black man driving it. I just hate anything like that because the color of a person's skin has nothing to do with the content of their character.
还有我兄弟们也有类似的事儿。他们开着Rolls-Royce车出门，等回来时发现他们的豪华车被钥匙刮花了，就因为有人发现车主是黑人。我对这类事无比痛恨，人的内心不是由肤色来决定的。

I love the Jewish babies and the German babies and the Asian and the Russians. We are all the same and I have the perfect hypothesis to prove it. I play to all those countries and they cry in all the same places in my show. They laugh in the same places. They become hysterical in the same places. They faint in the same places and that's the perfect hypothesis. There is a commonality that we are all the same. Because I have heard that the Russians are hard-nosed and the Germans have no feelings and emotions. They were just as emotional [at my concerts]....even more so. Some of my most loving fans are in Germany and Russia. They will stand out in the cold and in the rain to get a glimpse. They scream, "We want to Heal the World. We love you." And these are young people, you know, who had nothing to do with the war and all that crazy conditioning. They are different, you know. The new breed is different. They are wonderful. I feel like a person of the world. I can't take sides. That's why I hate saying, "I am an American." For that reason.
我爱各个族裔的人，无论是犹太人还是德国人，亚洲人或是俄国人。我们都是一样的人，我可以很好的证明这点。在各国巡演时，人们总会在我演出到某一场景时落泪，也都会在另一个环节大笑、或者颠狂、晕厥。这就是我们作为人所具有的共性。我以前听人说俄国人顽固倔强，德国人冷酷无情，而我在演唱会上看到的完全不是那样，他们热情洋溢。我的一些最热心的歌迷就来自德国和俄罗斯。他们会顶着寒风、站在雨里，仅仅为了看我一眼。他们尖叫“我们要治愈世界，我们爱你”。那些都是年轻人，他们没有经历大战，没有被洗脑。年轻一代真的不同，他们太棒了。所以我把自己当成一个世界公民，而不是偏袒某方，不情愿说“我是一个美国人”。

SB: Do you think that the fact that you were one of the first incredibly successful and famous black men affected your career to an extent? Some of the unfair things that people did, was that partially racism in the way that your mother experienced it?
你开创了黑人获得巨大成功的先例，这是否也在某种程度上影响到了你的事业？你是不是也遭受过种族主义的不公，就像你母亲在市场上遇到的？

MJ: Yes, because before me you had [Harry] Belafonte, you had Sammy [Davis, Jr.] you had Nat King Cole. You had them as entertainers and people loved their music. But they didn't get adulation, and they didn't get [people] to cry and they didn't get, "I am in love with you, and I want to marry you." They didn't get people tearing their clothes off and all the hysteria and all the screams. They didn't play stadiums. I was the first one to break the mold, where white girls Scottish girls, Irish girls screamed, " I am in love with you, I want to..." And a lot of the white press didn't like that. That's what has made it hard for me, because I was the pioneer and that's why they started the stories. "He's weird." "He's gay." "He sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber." "He wants to buy the bones of the Elephant Man"-anything that turns people against me. They tried their hardest. And anybody else would be dead as a junkie right now, who'd been through what I've been through.
有的，在我之前还有Harry Belafonte, 小Sammy Davis，Nat King Cole（译注：以上均为著名黑人表演艺术家）。他们都是杰出的艺人，人们喜欢他们的音乐，但不会把他们捧得很高，不会为他们激动地大喊大叫、歇斯底里，不会说“我爱你，我要嫁给你”，也不会去撕扯他们的衣服。他们没有在体育馆开大型个唱的机会。是我第一个打破这种壁垒，苏格兰、爱尔兰的白人姑娘们都会对我高喊“我爱你，我要。。。”。不少白人势力控制的媒体对此不爽，所以他们开始对我发动攻击，他们说我是怪人，我是同性恋，我在高压氧舱里睡觉，我要买象人遗骨。只要是让大众对我反感的故事，他们就不遗余力的大肆宣传。如果让别人来经历一遍我遭的罪，他早就变成无可救药的瘾君子了。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:34
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 03:49 编辑

SB: What gave you the strength to persevere?
你如此坚持的动力来自何方？

MJ:Believing in children. Believing in young people. Believing that God gave me this for a reason to help my babies.
相信孩子，相信年轻人。相信神赐予我才能是要我帮助他们的。

SB: So even though the older people were mean you still believed in the younger generation had a kindness in their hearts?
尽管过去人们卑鄙恶毒，你还是相信新生代内心是善良的？

MJ:Absolutely. I am still to this day trying to figure it out. I am having problems in my heart with the Jewish thing. I am having a big problem with it.
我坚信这点。一直到现在我还在时常思考犹太人的事儿，一想起来我就感到非常不安。

SB: What Jewish thing?
什么犹太人的事儿？

MJ: When I found out the count of how many children in the Holocaust alone died...[starts to break down]. What man can do something like that? I don't understand. It doesn't matter what race it is. I don't get it. I don't understand at all. I really don't. What kind of conditioning...I don't understand that kind of thing. Does someone condition you to hate that much? Is it possible that they could do that to your heart? They can't do that to mine. Could they do that to yours? I'm sorry.
当我发现在二战大屠杀中单单孩子就死了多少。。。（MJ非常悲伤，情绪激烈）什么人能忍心去杀害儿童？我不明白，这和无关种族，我想不通。通过洗脑可以让人产生如此巨大的仇恨。这样的洗脑对你会有用吗？对我不会有用。

SB: They could only do it to us if we made ourselves susceptible or if we severed our connection with a God who demands righteousness.
洗脑会起作用无外乎我们内心软弱易受影响，或者我们割裂与正义之神之间的纽带。

MJ: Hitler was a genius orator. He was [able] to make that many people turn and change and hate. He had to be a showman and he was. Before he could speak, he would pause, drink a bit of water, and then he would clear his throat, and look around. It was what entertainer would do trying to work out how to play his audience. He would go into this fury of the first words he would say and he would hit them hard. But where did he come from? I know he failed school and he wanted to be an architect. He failed a lot of things. But I think it all happened in prison, the whole Mein Kampf thing, didn't it? I really believe that.
希特勒是个天才的演说家。他能够改变很多人的想法，是他们仇恨。他应该成为一个好演员，他也确实是。他开口前先停顿一下，喝点水清清嗓子，环视四周。这其实是艺人在台上抓住观众的手段。他一开口就充满愤怒，情绪非常饱满。但他的这些经验来自哪里呢？我知道他书读得很糟，想成为建筑师，在很多事情上遭受过挫败。我认为他的那些演说技巧来自牢狱生涯，还有那本《我的奋斗》（Mein Kampf），难道不是吗？

(bearded gremlin says that Mike is absolutely right in his analysis of Hitler)
(SB非常赞同MJ对希特勒的分析。)

SB: Where he first wrote the book and began to formulate his ideas?
你指希特勒在狱中写书梳理他的想法？

MJ:Yeah, yeah. He built that anger, so strong, while [Nelson] Mandela did the opposite. He became a lamb in prison. He had no bitterness, to this day saying even though he is eighty and his youth is gone- because he was in prison so long- he doesn't regret any of it.
没错。他煽动起强烈的怒火，而曼德拉在狱中的表现和希特勒完全相反。他变得温驯而不是满怀怨恨。一直到现在，他已是八十多岁的老人了，也没有对当年漫长的牢狱生涯感到丝毫后悔。

SB: But is his youth gone?
可是他早已不再年轻？

MJ:[No]. He is sweet, very childlike.
不，他很可爱，像个孩子。

SB: Does he like to giggle?
他也喜欢像孩子一样傻笑吗？

MJ:He loves children because when I went to see him I had some kids with me and people were saying the kids have to stay, but Michael Jackson can come. I said, "I'm sure that Mr. Mandela wouldn't mind seeing children, I won't go in unless the children go too." I remember his representatives looked at me like this [makes stern and suspicious facial expression] and they went back and they said, " Everybody come." The first thing Mandela did is run to the children and pick them up and hug them. I knew he was that kind of man and he loved them. He was talking to them and then he shook my hand. I knew I was right.
他热爱孩子。有一次我要去见他，身边还带着几个孩子。接待人员说孩子们不能一起去。我说我肯定曼德拉先生不会介意他们在场。如果孩子们不能去，那我也干脆不去了。我记得那人板着脸很有些怀疑的看了看我。过了一会儿他回来了，让我们大家一起进去。一开门曼德拉就朝孩子们跑过来拥抱他们。我了解曼德拉，知道他喜欢孩子。他和孩子们说话，接着和我握手。我就知道我是对的

SB: Are you the opposite of Hitler? God gave you this phenomenal charisma and while he [Hitler] brought out the beast in man, you want to bring out some of that innocence and goodness in man.
你也和希特勒的截然相反吗？上帝赐予你非凡的感召力,你要用它来唤醒人们心中的纯真和善良，而希特勒激发他们身上的兽性。  

MJ:I believe that. You can change them because going to my show is like a religious experience because you [go in] one person and come out a different person. You really do.
我觉得是这样的。你可以改变他们，因为看我的演唱会就如同参加宗教仪式。他们刚来的时候是一个样，离开的时候另一个样。

SB: Is that one of your objectives, to try and pull that out of people, not just give entertainment?
那就是你的目的之一？感化人们向善，而不仅仅是给他们娱乐？

MJ: Absolutely, and we do it. I wish you could have seen some of the things we have done in concerts. Like we have had a huge tank on stage like an army tank and a soldier gets out and points it at everybody. And then he aims it at me and then the whole audience starts booing. This happens in every country...and I take the gun and I put it down and they start screaming. And then a little girl-I always have a little peasant girl-with a flower comes up and brings it to the soldier, right in his face, and he breaks down to his knees and he starts to cry. And the crowd goes crazy every time. Then I start giving this speech, and another little boy comes forward and he starts doing this speech in sign language and you look in the audience and everybody is crying. It happens in every country. That is part of Earth Song. I have been an ambassador of goodwill all over the world spreading this message. Then we do Heal the World, children of all nations circling this huge globe, and we have a big screen showing all the world leaders in the back and it is just amazing stuff. When other singers are singing about sex and I want to get in a hot tub with you baby and rub you all over and [yet I'm the one who] gets battered in the press as a weirdo.  Does that make any sense to you?
没错。我真希望你亲眼目睹演唱会上的一些场景。例如我唱《地球之歌》(Earth Song)的时候会安排一辆巨大的坦克车开到台上，车里钻出一个大兵端着枪对着平民。当他用枪对准我时，台下所有观众都开始嘘他，每个国家的歌迷都是这样。然后我就从大兵手里把枪拿下，这时观众们就开始尖叫。接着一个小女孩——我总是在这段安排一个农家女孩——手里拿着花朝大兵走过去，把花递到他眼前。大兵再也无法自持，他跪下开始哭泣。每次演到这儿，歌迷们就如痴如狂。当我开始讲话时，一个小男孩也走上前同步打起手语，而台下所有人都在哭。我们每到一个国家，每个场次都是这样。一直以来我都是亲善大使，向全世界宣传关爱。紧接着《地球之歌》，我们就开始唱《治愈地球》(Heal The World),来自不同国家的孩子绕着一个巨大的地球模型围成个圈，后面的大屏幕上放着各国领袖的影像，那场景太感人了。别的歌手唱着淫词艳曲，什么“我要和你一起跳进澡盆，抚摸你的全身”，而我却被媒体说成是个怪胎，你说这合理吗？

SB: No, of course, not right.
不合理，那当然不合理。

MJ: It is not right, is it?
可不就是不合理吗？

(Rabbi looks in the mirror, polishes his horns, plays with his tail and goes on babblin)
(SB照照镜子，擦了擦头上的魔鬼犄角，又摆弄了几下他的魔鬼尾巴，接着往下唠叨)

SB: What if they wouldn't understand? What if they were like the Nazis, just evil people?
如果他们不理解呢？如果他们是像纳粹分子一样邪恶的人呢？

MJ:I can't imagine that I couldn't reach their hearts in some kind of way.
我不能想象完全无法以某种方式触动他们的心。

SB: So you believe if you were face-to-face with Hitler you could...
所以你相信如果你有和希特勒面对面的倾谈的机会，你就可以。。。

MJ:Absolutely. Absolutely! He had to have had a lot of yes people around him who were afraid of him.
可以的，可以的。他周围有太多点头哈腰的人，因为他们都害怕他。

SB: You believe that if you had an hour with Hitler you could somehow touch something inside him?
你认为给你一个小时去和希特勒交谈，你就有办法触及到他的内心？

MJ:Absolutely. I know I could.
可以的，我知道我可以。

SB: With Hitler? Come on. Michael! Hitler?! So you don't believe there is anyone who is completely evil and there is no way to touch them. So you don't believe in punishing the wicked because then...
哪怕是希特勒吗？算了吧，Michael? 希特勒？！你不相信这世上有彻头彻尾的恶棍，根本不可能感化他。你不相信对恶人要惩罚，因为。。。

MJ:No, I believe you can help them, give them therapy. You have to teach them, that somewhere something in their life went wrong. They don't see what they do. They don't understand that it is wrong a lot of times.
不，我还是相信你可以帮助这样的人，为他们疗伤。你必须让他们懂得他们的生命中曾经出过问题。他们自己看不到这点。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:37
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 07:13 编辑

SB: But Michael, there are clearly people who are irredeemable. Like Hitler. He was evil incarnate. There was no humanity there for you to address. You'd be speaking to the abyss, to a darkness like you never before witnessed. What about someone who killed a lot of people? Don't you believe that there should be no therapy for them?
可是Michael,这世上就是有无法救赎的人，比如希特勒，他就是邪恶的化身，没有半点人性可言。你那是对着个无底深渊讲话，你从没见过那样的黑洞。对那么一个杀人恶魔，你还真相信世上有让他回心转意的妙方？

MJ: I feel horrible about it. I wish somebody could have reached their hearts.
那让我感觉很糟糕，真该有人去触动他们。

SB: What if they've done it already? They've already killed their victims.
要是那些恶棍已经杀了人呢？

MJ: If they have done it already, it is wrong.
杀人是不对的。

(The gremlin says something but I can't hear what he's saying because of all the disgusting noises that he makes when he opens his mouth)
（SB接着又说了一通，含混不清，故略之）

SB: Michael, do you really think you could have gotten through to Hitler?
Michael, 你真的觉得你可以感化希特勒？

MJ:Uhuh. Yes.
没错。

SB: By finding the good in him somehow?
在他身上也能发现优点？

MJ:Yes, I think I could have. I really do, I think. Nobody really talked to him. I think he was surrounded by, I hate to say this, brownnosers. But that's what they were. That's what he wanted. That's what they did.
是的，我觉得我可以。没人真正和他真诚的交谈。我觉得他周围都是些马屁精，而那些阿谀谄媚他也很受用。

SB: He was never challenged?
从没人敢反对他？

MJ:There were Germans against him, They even tried to kill him, remember?
也有德国人反对他的，还曾企图暗杀他，记得吗？

-skip-doodoo-skip
（略去SB的一通废话）

SB: So you have forgiven everyone in your heart except for certain members of the press who are mean and people who hurt children?
那么你可以发自内心的原谅所有人，除了某些恶意中伤你的媒体和伤害儿童的人？

MJ:Yes.
是的。


＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝


第15节：Following the Golden Rule - With all People 遵循与人相处的金科玉律

翻译: gummykitty



SB: Let's get back to justice. When you see so many injustices with no recourse to justice, when people are killed and their murderer is never found, when garbage is written about you and people get away with it, in fact they are promoted, how do you continue to believe in justice?
我们再回来谈谈正义。你看到世上种种不公得不到法律的制裁，杀人犯逍遥法外，造谣中伤你的家伙不仅没事儿还能升职，你如何还能继续相信正义？

MJ:I don't believe in justice. I believe in it but I don't believe that....
我不相信正义总能马上获胜。我相信正义存在，只是不认为。。。（被SB打断）

SB: You don't believe that the righteous are going to be rewarded and the wrongdoers will be punished?  That good people should prosper and wicked people should founder and sink?
你不信善有善报、恶有恶报？你不信好人理应成功而恶人必定失败吗？

MJ: All these are man-made things. I think evil is in people's hearts. This is where you and I might disagree. I don't think there is some devil out there manipulating our thoughts. That is what I was taught.
那些统统是人编造出来的。邪恶其实就藏在人们心中。这点上我们可能会有分歧。我不认为真有一个具体的魔鬼操纵我们的思想，尽管以前我学的教义说有魔鬼。

SB: (speaks about how they don't believe in devil in Judaism and goes on about Hitler and people who are evil to their very core.)
（SB解释犹太教也不信有魔鬼，接着又提到希特勒那样坏到骨子里的人。）

MJ: I thought the devil is very evil. He is in this room and he is behind all the evil in this world ( Oh dear Mike you have no idea how right you were)  The devil is awfully busy. Look how everyone is turning gay and look how women are doing this. I think the devil is man himself.
魔鬼当然是极其邪恶的，他无处不在，无孔不入。那么多男人变成同性恋，女人变得堕落。每个人身上其实都藏着魔鬼。

(evil gremlin babbles)
（SB又开始喋喋不休）

SB: How can we get people to sustain a belief in justice in such a cruel world?
那在残酷的现实面前，我们又如何让人们保持对正义的信念呢？

MJ: Follow the Golden Rule. Be kind to your neighbors, love them as much as you would love yourself, do unto others....
遵循待人的金科玉律啊。“彼此相爱，爱人如爱己”，还有“己所欲，施与人”。。。（译注：此处MJ引用圣经中耶稣的话）

SB: How do you feel when you see people get away with cruelty?  Are you angry?  Do you say, there is no justice, these are mean people?
当有人犯下残酷罪行却可以不受法律制裁，你是什么感觉？你会感到愤怒吗？你会想这世上没有正义可言吗？

MJ: I get angry, yeah. But I know that is the way of the world. That's the theme of my world show: Be kind, heal the world. Let's walk out of here a different human being. Let's love. It's like going to church but I do it without preaching. I do it though music and dancing. Marilyn Manson says onstage, "Kill God....take your Bibles and tear them...."  Yet the press doesn't attack him! And he has got breasts on just like a woman.....
没错，我会感到愤怒，但我也知道现实如此。所以我巡演的主题就是要大家做好人，治愈世界。看完演唱会让我们下决心改变自己，让我们彼此相爱。观众们就像去了趟教堂一样，只不过我不是通过布道而是靠音乐和舞蹈来改变他们。Marilyn Manson在台上说“杀死上帝。。。撕毁圣经”，可媒体就不找他的碴儿。他甚至还安了对假胸装女人。。。 (译注：Marilyn Manson是美国摇滚男歌手,他的艺名糅合了女影星Marilyn Mornoe和杀人魔王Charles Manson，以诡异的哥特造型闻名。)

SB: So when you see people who are mean, who are very prosperous, do you ever look at God and say, "I can't figure it out?"
看到恶人功成名就，你有没有感到过困惑、质疑上帝？

MJ: No, because I know how I feel.
没有，我内心很坚定。

SB: So what do you do at moments like that?
这种时候你怎么办呢？

MJ: I believe there are some good people in the world and I do beleive there is God. I don't believe that God judges. I don't think that He is upstairs going, "You are alright. But I am going to tear you up." I wouldn't do that.
我相信这世上有好人，我相信上帝。但我不认为上帝会审判人类，他不会高高在上的说“甲你还不错，乙我要撕了你”。我不赞同那样。

SB: There is no hell in Judaism either. There is punishment for the sake of cleansing, but no punishment for the sake of damnation.
我们犹太教里也不讲地狱。我们相信神惩罚人是为了净化世界，而不是要把他打入地狱。

MJ:Really?  I think that is all beautiful because we were all taught to believe in the devil and Lucifer and the burial ground, where you never get resurrection and judgment. There is a decision being made right now as we talk. Jesus is putting certain people on the left and certain people on the right, and when the end of the world comes all those people on the left will be swallowed up and they will be dead forever.
真的吗？那很不错，因为我们以前所学的教义都是要我们相信有魔鬼和地狱，一旦下了地狱就万劫不复。耶稣会依据每个人的行为决定谁好谁坏。当世界末日来临，坏人就下地狱，不可得永生。（译注：基督教认为不信上帝不信耶稣的都是有罪的，圣经中有多处提及。）

That's not fair is it?  There are a lot of beautiful, good people in the world no matter what religion, no matter what race. If there was really such a thing as real true heavenly justice, I don't think Hitler would have got away with what he did as long as he did. Then you get those people who say, "It happened for a reason, to teach the world never to let it happen again." My foot! You don't need million of those little kids to die to teach me the world. I am not going for it. They let them get away with it.
这不太公平，对吧？这世界上有很多好人，也许信仰不同的宗教，也许属于不同的族裔。如果真有绝对正义存在，希特勒就不会有机会犯下那么令人发指的罪行了。有人会说“那些可怕的事之所以会发生，就是为了警醒人类永远不要重蹈覆辙”。才怪！让千百万儿童死去以达到教化世人的目的？我无法接受这种说法，这让恶人逃避责罚。

(babbly babblydoo)
（SB继续唠叨，略之）

(they're talking about Professor Wiesel who is a victim and a survivor of a concentration camp)
（他们谈论的Wiesel教授是著名的二战集中营幸存者。）

MJ:He is not bitter. He is like Mandela in that way.
你在他身上看不到怨恨，这点很像曼德拉。

SB: So you don't believe in justice? You have seen it subverted too many times to believe in it?
所以你不相信司法公正？因为你看到太多法律遭践踏的例子？

MJ:I believe there should be justice but I don't believe in the justice system. That's what I should say. You have seen the things that go on in the world and how people get away with them.
我觉得应该这么说，这世界需要正义，但我不信任司法制度。你也看到了，那些人作恶多端却依然逍遥法外。

SB: The majority of the good people that you have met, have they prospered?
你遇到的人中，大多数好人还都挺成功的，是吗？

MJ:Absolutely.
是的。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:38
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 07:20 编辑

第16节：对野心，成功和诚实的想法

翻译: 熊顿   校对： lovelymj


SB:那么野心也可以是件好事，只要它不是那么的残酷，只要不牵涉嫉妒羡慕？

MJ:是的，只要它不会伤害任何人。野心是个好东西，它让我们去了解思维的运作模式、思想的力量，还有如何在生命中开创自己的一片天地。它让我们去了解所有智慧的优点，因为我们不是生来就懂得这些的。你必须去寻找生活的真理。一旦你了解了所有的这些，你就知道在哪里还有改进的余地，这多好啊~！

SB:所以你想培养孩子们的那种野心，而不是去遏制它？

MJ:他们本来就有，你得让他们去。You have to just will them on.

SB:让我们谈谈诚实吧。最童真的品质就是彻底的诚实，有时候对孩子们讲真话会伤害他们。可是他们总是有什么说什么。特别是在他们长大懂得如何去说谎之前。如果你是个胖子他们就说你胖，如果你长得难看他们就说你丑，如果你有体味他们就说你臭。这总是好事么？还是说我们应该更圆滑一点？

MJ:我觉得我们必须教导他们与人为善，怎样才能不伤害别的人的感情，昨天我和王子去录音室，一个和我一起工作的音乐家是个胖子，很胖，王子就说： “他的肚子看起来象个气球~！”我说：“Prince，你是对的，但是你见到他时别在他面前说他胖，因为你可能会把他弄哭的！”他说：“好吧，我保证不 说。”我这样教导他不要伤害到别人（的感情）。

SB: "好吧，但孩子们说真话还是值得鼓励的吧？所以你没有对王子说那个人并不胖，因为让他撒谎就那就不是童真的东西了，你只是告诉他有时候你要把真话藏在肚子里，你没有对王子说“他这样挺好的，他并不胖。”

MJ:我绝对没有。

SB:所以诚实很重要。让我们这么假设，如果（制作专辑过程中）你有个员工（音乐家），他工作效率不高，妨碍了整个专辑的制作进程呢，你会怎么办？

MJ:我正巧碰上了这样的状况，有位女士演奏完全跟不上节奏，我对他们的人说，“让她继续，但是明天不能让她过来了”然后她并没有得到第二天要她来的通知。我们只是暗中安静地处理了这件事。

SB:所以你有时不得不应付这种尴尬状况，你的处理方法是诚实以待却设法不伤害他人。

MJ:你必须在不伤害他们的前提下去做。

SB:那么说你觉得总有不用伤人也可以诚实的方法？

MJ:当然。比如我不会直接去为我的短片挑选演员（MJ一直叫自己的MV为短片）特别是有孩子来面试角色的情况下。我不想站在他们面前说“好吧，让我们看看你有什么本领。” 他们展示了，却没有被录用。那他们会说：“MJ拒绝我了。”我让人把每个演员的表演录下来，然后我在家看并且做决定（录用谁）。我不能面对他们落选时的痛 苦。所以我一般都不得不那么做。

(blah blah)一顿废话

SB:那么，在你抚养王子和巴黎过程中，诚实是很重要的。

MJ:（转向王子）那上面有便便，Prince，那上面都是便便，不要弄到你头发上。这是狗狗的便便铲（译者：= =|），别弄到你头发上。（哎呦喂！槌桌！实在是太可爱啦！王子，来，阿姨抱抱。。。L同学插话：咳咳，注意形象哈。。。。）

SB在谈各路小报是如何将MJ描绘成一个细菌恐惧症者，而这完全是捏造的。

SB:顺便问一下我刚刚说过保罗麦卡特尼是个最大的卡通收藏家，你那时侯说这些伟大的艺术家都有颗童心？？

MJ:是的，是的，他热爱卡通并且很认真的对待它们。他收藏卡通。现在我可比他厉害，如果你去我的影碟馆可以看到一排又一排的卡通，因为我超爱卡通的。卡通世界是我暂时逃离现实的法宝。

SB:（在想到你的成功时）你会不会对自己说“我是幸运的，（我的音乐）来自上帝，不只是我自己创造的。这是天赐的礼物，所以我没资格自大。”

MJ:是的，人们总是问我为什么不会让这些冲昏头脑，显然让我成功的不是我自己。就象让米开朗基罗成功的不是他本身一样，他是被圣灵所启，那是天赐的礼物。我认为你能够把事情做到一定的程度，可是一个真正意义上的天才是上天赐与的。。。

（你不会想知道这个两面派SB在这段说了些什么SHIT。。。）

SB:动辄指责别人的人通常都气量狭小。他们吹毛求疵。我们为何会越是长大却越是小气（卑劣）？随着我们日渐成熟，我们的身体在长大，可是我们的思想却越来越狭隘。你觉得孩子们比成人更拥有一颗宽容的心吗？是什么让这些心变狭隘了呢？——这里Vick跳过了SB的废话

MJ:你知道为什么么，SB? 当你环游了世界并看到了我所目睹过的一切，你将很难接受世界的本来面目。我不能想象自己不被看过的那些事物所触动，就像那个中国的村庄，还有在非洲，俄罗斯，德国，以色列看到的一些事情。。。（MJ给了一位穷苦的女士一些钱并让她好好喂养猫咪，她履行了承诺但是猫养肥之后她却把猫给吃了。）

MJ:我记得在以色列的一家医院里，那个新生的婴儿挣扎着存活，一出生鼻子里就插满了东西（译者：这句不清楚，难道是呼吸管？）。你怎能不为之痛心呢？我对每一个人说，那些孩子们，每一个人：“过来，孩子们，你们得看看这个。” 因为我觉得他们应该去体会孩子是多么的重要，去帮助别人，向整个世界、向贫苦的人们施以援手。可是到处都是享乐主义和自我主义，我对这些深恶痛绝。（Vick说她看到这段很悲伤。）

SB-问了老长的问题，关于为什么成功没冲昏头脑啦，他怎么依然保持他善感的心啦，不傲慢自大啦，经常去孤儿院啦，为什么别的很多成功人士都有的坏毛病都没发生在M身上啦这类的。。。

MJ:这个很难回答，我想我只是对人们的痛苦和爱的更加敏感，我想这源于我的内心。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:40
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-23 04:58 编辑

第17节：  演出的痛苦，世界之巅的压力

翻译: nicknicknick   校对：lovelymj




SB: 你觉得你总是在证明自己吗？总是不得不表演，从没休息，从未得到过尽情的玩耍的机会？

MJ: 我热爱艺术，我非常热爱。
我妈妈知道的。 我爱画画和雕刻或其他什么的。我的艺术和英语从来是A。这两科是我经常得A+的科目。我只接受过很少的正规学校教育，其余时间都是由家庭教师教授。但是在去学校的那几年里，老师总是在英语课上和讲故事环节，把我树为同学们的榜样，那时候我们必须讲同样的故事。但是她老是让我站在教室前面，（我讨厌这个），并向全班朗读我的故事，那总能引起大家的热烈欢呼。这不是因为我是谁，而是因为他们真的很喜欢我写的故事。我曾有一个收集这些的文件包，因为我也是一个艺术家，我喜欢涂涂画画。但是有人把它偷走了， 我很伤心，我一直想永久保存来着。可是总有一天它会突然从某个角落冒出来的，因为我是个现实主义者而非抽象艺术者，如那些我爱的人，我真心的爱着， 我会为他们而死。 我爱米开朗基罗，我全心全意爱查尔斯•卓别林。 我爱沃尔特•迪斯尼。 这些都是我为之疯狂的人。我崇拜他们，我爱伟人。

SB: 你总是不得不做那个卖出一亿张唱片的Michael Jackson吗？这个压力非常大啊。

MJ: 还有媒体，他们磨刀霍霍。

SB: 想整垮你？

MJ: 绝对的。他们想毁掉我，所以我（的成就）必须要超越想象，超越辉煌，我竭尽所能。

SB: 但是你这样会疲惫不堪啊。

MJ: 是，因为当你是总销量最高的艺术家的时候，当你打破记录的时候，他们等着……你就成了靶子。

SB: 是什么让你得到歇息，是什么给你力量？是王子和巴黎吗？

MJ: 王子、巴黎和全世界的孩子们，不仅仅是王子和巴黎，是所有的孩子。

SB: 你有没有想过，你的下一张专辑有可能不让人惊艳，你将不再是与众不同的？

MJ: 那对我的打击实在太可怕了（如果我没达到我想要的话）， 我真的给自己很大的压力，我苛求自己做到完美。 真的。我用最好的形式或最好的手法， 我给我自己很多很多压力。 所以发生的话，如果这个发生的话，那会摧毁我的心。

SB: 但是你有没有感觉到如果你表现得不那么成功，人们还是会爱你的？你仍会感受到爱吗？一个孩子如果在学校表现不好，他、她还是应该感觉到爱的。

MJ: 是的，我会感觉到爱，可那是因为以前的成就。但是我不会因此而感觉好受的。我试着不去吃老本。

SB: 你认为你曾告诉过我的那些事，一个非常艰难的童年——没有生日，没有圣诞节，这就是为什么事业上的成功对你来说是多么的重要？

MJ: 很可能，我想是的。

SB: 你觉得你有点过于折磨自己吗，才使得你这么的难受？你为做到完美而无止境的向自己施压？

MJ: 确实是。 我知道这是真的。我宁愿做那个全权负责的人，因为我有最终说话权，所有事情的最终决定权。 过去我做的非常成功。 哦，上帝， 但如果我真的没那么成功了， 我都不知道我该怎么办。

SB: 但是迈克，你不觉得这是你终究要面对并应该克服的么?

MJ: 我知道，但是我克服不了，我天生如此，上帝没把我造成那个样子。


========================================================================

第18节：  神秘大师

翻译: BigBee   校对：lovelymj



SB: 好吧，我要和你说说对于这本书来说一个很关键的问题。基于我对你的观察，我实话实说啦，从未见过有谁像你那样知晓“神秘”的力量。换句话说，在犹太教里神秘学十分重要。（大胡子老爹开始忽悠了）先知以赛亚曾说过：天使撒拉弗有六翼，为什么呢？因为他“用两个翅膀遮脸，两个翅膀遮脚，两个翅膀飞翔。”(以赛亚书： 6:02)（BigBee: 哦，哦，我的天啊，吓死偶了，我还以为SB老胡子老爹说最后两只翅膀是用来做可乐鸡翅的呢）是不是很让人着迷？天使是如此的谦恭，如此的神秘，他们用翅膀来掩盖自己。

MJ: 那真美。

(rabbi 谈论圣经中神秘学的其他例子)
（Bigbee: 请看大胡子老爹下一部分的忽悠。）

MJ: 我真的很喜欢这些故事。

SB: 所以在圣经中，神秘很重要，我从未见过有谁像你这么理解“神秘”的力量。我会给你举些例子，之后我希望你能给予评价。第一，我的孩子们正走在梦幻庄园里，糖果到处都是，他们都很喜欢，因为他们从未见过这么多的糖果。这有做爆米花的机器，有做雪锥（类似蛋筒的甜品）的机器，只要那些是清洁的（Kosher意思是符合犹太教规的、清洁的、可食的，泛指与犹太饮食相关的产品，大胡子老爹是犹太人嘛）他们就会吃。可是尽管Prince 和Paris身边有很多这样的食品，但是你却告诉他们“不行，你们只能在过生日时吃这些。Grace（迈的保姆 ，就是最近回归了，而且胸围上涨的那个） 说你不允许你的孩子玩秋千或者类似那样的活动，这样他们就不会觉得玩腻。当我们去FAO Schwartz（一家玩具店）买玩具的时候， Prince 可以买玩具，但他得等一段时间才能打开。尤其是涉及到你的事业时，你很明白把自己藏起来会有多大影响力。

(大胡子老爹谈论迈的事业)

SB: 所以有两件事我想要问你，和我谈谈“神秘”，它对你意味着什么？还有当你知道每个电视台要你出镜的时候，你是怎样的反应？（这个大胡子老爹和迈说了很多哦）谈谈你对“神秘”的看法，你是怎么知道的？你在那里获得的这种能力的呢？（L同学插话：这好像不只两个问题了波）

MJ: 哇，小样的，你还挺善于观察的嘛，你能注意那些细节的问题，那真好。恩，我研究。。。我喜欢心理学，我喜爱魔术，我喜爱。。我喜爱真正美好的事物， 我爱真正的天才。我爱那些不可思议的东西。当某件事物非常美好的时候，你不应该得到它。我喜欢哈雷彗星，我甚至跟我的律师说这个事，其实和太阳或月亮相比，哈雷彗星并未见得更加神奇。可是我们认为看见它是天大的事，因为一生中你仅会见到一次，所以（一旦它出现），大家都会跑出去看。那些天文学家啊，天文爱好者啊，还有普通人群都会出去看。一切都是为了这个围绕太阳系旋转的彗星，此生你只会看到一次。倘若它每晚出现，就无人在意了。可是对我来说月亮也同样不可思议。我总谈论小鹿啊，小狗啊，小猫啊。很多人看到鹿都会惊呼：“有只鹿”。 因为小鹿都很害羞，它们总是藏起来。所以看见一只小鹿很是件大事。我的意思是说，我喜欢这样，人们的确应该欣赏那些真正有能力的人。可是就像我一直说的，不论你是否是这世上最有天赋的人，如果你每天都上电视，人们就会觉得作呕。所以你必须得知道怎么和观众们耍点小心眼儿。你必须知道而且这是真的，大胡子老爹。这不是个游戏，对于我，它就是真理，它就是真理，真的这样

SB: 你确定么?

MJ: 如果你保持神秘，人们就会更好奇。Yeah~

SB: 就好像如果一个女人总是脱掉上衣，就没有人再想看到她的胸了。(L的话：这个例子后面也有出现。。。老兄，你可以想点儿别的不？)

MJ: 对。

SB: 但是如果她偶尔脱一次，会令人非常激动，会充满了情色的味道。

MJ: 对。

SB: 但如果每天的话。。。

MJ: 对

SB: 就像你去的那些非洲部落，那的女人都袒胸露乳的，那就没什么了。

MJ: 没什么，真的没什么。 要留一些想象的空间，我相信这个，人们都。。。

SB: 有人教过你这方面的事情么？

MJ: 没有，我只是观察，从大自然中摄取知识，不断的学习。知道么，就是观察和学习，要成为一名认真的观察员。恩。。，你可以和某个人说，你开始可以这么说“有六扇 门，你可以打开其中的任何一扇，但是无论如何你都不能打开第五扇门。”当然咯，每个人都会继续问你：“第五扇门的后面到底有什么？”因为它有着很强的神秘感。知道么，这就是为何所有人都想要打开第五扇门的原因。我喜欢那样并不是因为它看起来像在玩游戏，而是我想要人们来欣赏有天赋和能力的人。我每五年出一张专辑，而其他的艺人每年都会出新专辑，可是我的专辑更经典，更畅销。人们翘首以待。知道么，就像把整个身心都投入到这张专辑上了。那好似狂热，他们一直在等待，在等待！其实等待很重要。

SB: 所以你怎么看待隐藏起来的事物生命力比显露在外的事物更加持久？突然收回人们想要看到的又是什么呢？

MJ: 我只是很爱神秘的力量，我真的很喜爱它。我认为它非常有能量。

SB: 它是源自于心灵的么? 那到底是什么？

MJ: 它是种精神上的东西, 人们自己会编出各种想法。比如他们常说霍华德•休斯就在那儿（他是世界航空史上的一个传奇，要看详情请点击此网址http://baike.baidu.com/view/444822.htm），他拥有一间旅馆，但是他只呆在地板上，从不下来。他藏在黑暗里， 他卷缩在床的一角，手指甲留得很长，头发长到这儿，被身上鳞癣的病痛折磨着。所以其实大脑可以编造出各种疯狂的故事，我喜欢这样。我爱霍华德。休斯。 因为他玩神秘玩得很溜，我的意思是对我来说，他就像我的一个导师。但这是我第一次跟人家说这事，大胡子老爹。我爱他， 他是个天才。

SB: 为什么，因为他懂得神秘的力量？

MJ: 怎么和别人耍小心眼儿，是的，他知道如何让公众对他更感兴趣。費尼爾司•泰勒•巴納姆在这方面也很擅长。

SB: 仅仅是不出现在公众视野中就够了么？ (说了有关他如何讲述<the rules>这本书的作者的， 问迈是否赞同这本书的理论)

MJ: 不，我并不完全同意，这取决于个人。

SB: 但是你说这是个与大家耍小心眼儿的事，只要退后他们就会要的更多，就这么简单么？

MJ: 还要控制好节奏和时机. 你得知道自己在做什么。就像你从未在颁奖典礼上听到我说“入围者是谁谁谁。。” 如果我会去给人颁奖的话，每一场典礼都会邀请我去参加。现在他们甚至都不问我了，因为他们知道我不会去做的。（你也不会看到）我成为下一个演出的主持人，再或是上台说“接下来迈克尔杰克逊将会宣布今年的获奖名单。”你从未看到我出来然宣读入围者的名单，我从不做这个，他们知道我不做，所以从来也不问。这不是我该做的。

SB: You will never do something which makes you be the means to another end. You’re either the end or you’re not. It’s about either you or you’re not going to be the road.
如果做某件事会使你走上到达另一个极端的路，你是绝对不会去做的。你要么就身处极致，要么就完全不染指。你永远都不会在路途之中。（L: 这句话我也不是很清楚。。。瞎翻的，清高手赐教）

MJ:是的，但我不想说我很神圣或者我是上帝之类的话。。

SB: 你也不会降低身价。

MJ: 我不想那么做，我想要。。你知道么，人们应该尊重有能力有才华的人，看在上帝的份上，真的，我都是一片好意啊。

SB: 我同意你的看法。

MJ: 但是真的，我一直在试着保护自己。

SB: 这个，这本书就包括这些, 包括你如何学到神秘的隐蔽这种能力。你看在纽约，有成千上百的女人要结婚，然而男人们却不想要承担婚姻的责任. 你知道其中一个重要原因就是不结婚的话，女人们也自会向男人献身。

(大胡子在宣传他的一本书)

MJ: 啊，对。

SB: 如果你不用和她结婚就可以得到她的身体，为什么要娶她呢？（大胡子谴责刚刚约会就献身的女人）顺便说一下，这就发生在麦当娜身上。麦当娜过分暴露自己的身体。虽然她仍是名人，但她已经和以前不同。

MJ: 是啊，我知道。

(大胡子继续抨击麦大妈)

SB: 现今很少有人懂得神秘的力量。你明白是因为你本性里存在着一种直觉的灵性，那是真正的天赋。你对神秘和时机选择的这种理解使我们更加了解圣意。上帝只会偶尔的现身，那只是在选定的时刻。神秘性和时机选择才是这个启示的精髓。

MJ: 我很喜欢那个，这也是我最愿意思考的事情之一。

SB: 上帝有多么隐秘。

MJ: 有多隐秘。。

SB: 你要去找寻他。

MJ: 你通过他看到他所有的神迹，但是你无法看到他的脸，他本身。知道么？你从孩子身上可以间接看到上帝。

SB: 这使你对他更感兴趣？

MJ: 是的。

SB: 你想要找到他?
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:42
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-23 04:57 编辑

以下翻译：maryruan校对：lovelymj

MJ:这肯定会使得你想要寻找并发现上帝。我也真的喜欢这样。但一些人甩手走开了，他们说：“所有的这些以及宇宙是怎么回事，上帝在哪？我想要和他说话，但是又怎么样？”。你知道我喜欢这样，我认为上帝真的是万物的根源。

SB：所以（神秘）就是阻止人们心生厌倦的方法，就是在人们开始变得厌倦之前应该做的头一件事。所以你天生就知道把握时机和保持神秘。你就是知道对么？

MJ: 是的，Shmuley。

SB：而不是像经纪人把你拽到一边跟你说“Michael，你可以是一个巨星，别做过头了。”

MJ：不是那样。

SB：你的兄弟们理不理解这个？

MJ：不，他们不理解。他们向来不放过任何(出风头)的事情。如果有人说：“我想就Michael新的穿衣风格采访你”，他们会说：“当然可以”。因为他们只是想上电视。我认为，当你内敛矜持的时候大家才会更能欣赏你。

SB：内敛？

MJ: 对，内敛，把自己塑造成某种阶层，而使得别人来追寻你，却（抓不到）。。。..就好像我喜欢房子的大门。我爱那些巨大的石柱和门。因为你不知道门后的路那边是什么。你只能看到这些，你就会说“天哪，谁住在那儿？”。你看不到门后生活的人，只能看见门。我爱这样。

SB：但是通往Neverland的大门却很简单。

MJ：非常简单，那就是我希望的样子。因为我不想让这个门代表。。。你知道，这是一种心理学效应。我想让它成为…什么词来者，嗯，我还没想好。（估计想让门看起来平淡无奇）我希望人们轻推开它，然后就被里面的美景惊呆窒息。恍惚间真的好像进入一个牧场一样。当你绕过弯道，柳暗花明又一村。就像《新绿野仙踪》用的效果一样。

SB：这就是我们经历的真切感受。我们到Neverland的第一句话就是“这儿不会是MJ的农场，这么简单的大门！”，然后你驱车穿过大门会看到“欢迎到Neverland来”的标牌，然后，叮咚

MJ：是的

SB：美景扑面而来。

MJ：你看，所以在演艺界里知道这个也很重要。如果你开头动作过大，接下来何去何从？开头起得太高，你就接不上。所以，不能这样做。这就是为什么我常说，那个发明过山车的人是天才。你坐上过山车，开始向上走，一直向上。你会说：“老天，我为什么要这么干？”然后它带着你笔直向下冲，再稍微向上，再向下。发明过山车的家伙真是个表演家。他知道高峰和谷底，然后他带着你急转、向上、翻转。这个家伙是真正的表演家，因为他懂得留白、控制节奏和整体结构，这个很重要。作为演艺界的艺人，这个也很重要。但现在的大多数艺人却一点也不知道。

SB：他们曝光太多了。

MJ：绝对是的。

SB：你生来就有把握节奏的能力并且懂得它，这是你最棒的最专业的幸事？

MJ：我想是的。

SB：这是你敬爱上帝的部分原因。他的隐秘和你的这些合而为一。而你触及了圣迹的隐秘、而且知晓“神秘”的力量。

MJ：我想是的。就好像你说话的方式，Shmuley，那是上帝在你体内流转的力量。(和rabbi谈了更多关于上帝的力量的话题)

SB：你只是进入其中(指上帝的力量)？

MJ：是的，进入其中。你和上帝赐予你的东西融合为一，那就像是对话，心灵的对话，你和上帝之间的对话，听众与你同在。你怎么能去描述，我是说，你怎么能剖析和分析它呢？你真的不能。人们问你是怎样做到的，“嗯，设计和训练的结果”，你不能这样说。



第19节：名望之谏

翻译: maryruan+BigBee    校对：lovelymj


SB：所以昨天N Sync有人来看你，有主唱Justin Timberlake，还有个我不认识的。他的名字是？

MJ：Wade，是舞蹈指导

SB：哦，他不是N Sync的人？

MJ：他是Britney Spears 和N Sync舞蹈指导。看见我教Wade了吗？

SB：真的？

MJ：没错，我教Wade。你看Britney Spears 和N Sync跳的那些舞，整体风格均从我这里得来，因为是我教了Wade。他是澳大利亚人，我带他来了美国。

SB：他是Britney Spears 和N Sync的舞蹈指导？

MJ：是的，他也做音乐，在我MJJ(公司)的旗下。他唱RAP，各方面都有涉足。

SB：所以他带着巨星Britney Spears来这，还有N Sync的主唱。他们是男女朋友(非常绕的问题)。你有什么建议给他们吗？

MJ：尽力保持童真。不要迫使自己进入成年，不要。不要扮酷…要去迪士尼，和朋友出去玩，享受你的年轻时光，因为你会长大的，我指的是，要保持童真，要寻找快乐，做真的自己。
(rabbi问及后来怎么情况发展如何？MJ的回答是“令人失望”)

SB：所以，你会后辈的成功艺人说些什么？比如对N Syncs。你也会告诉他们好好玩，别那么严肃，或者其他的吗？别把自己太当回事之类？

MJ：不，我一直想告诉他们要使自己的作品日臻完美。我很相信天道酬勤。可是也应同时去享受工作，你明白吗？就像玩耍一样。当然，你也需要开心的玩。

SB：你经常跟我说，你一直为自己的演艺家族而感到自豪，你的演唱会孩子们来看也很合适。

MJ:是的

SB：Britney Spears在上次MTV颁奖上的表演被狠狠批评了，(因为)她在台上就像在跳脱衣舞

MJ：哦…是的

SB：她把这件脱下来，把那件脱下来，脱完还扔出去..你认为她需要用如此充斥性意味的表演来传达信息？还是她很具有天赋的，其实不需要这样做？你针对此事会给她什么建议，或者，那只是表演的一部分，没什么大不了？

MJ:嗯，我不想为此谴责她。因为那是一个表演。但是，她应该知道那些孩子会想要模仿她，会做她所做的。有时，艺人意识不到他们正在做的事有危险性。如果我拍了 一张拿着烟的照片，那么那天会有多少孩子开始吸烟？你知道，你必须要考虑周全。我知道，即使只是一个录像，我只是在扮演一个角色，但你就像是孩子们的神，(他们会模仿你)，我指的是…

SB:你总是感觉到有责任？

MJ：嗯

SB:你一直都知道，你在照片上看起来什么样，人们就会那样模仿你？

MJ：是的。我也明白一些艺人有时会矛盾。你知道的，如果媒体总是说她来自米老鼠俱乐部，是个可爱的小Britney，她也许会想“我要摆脱这个形象，我是个边缘坏女孩，我可以脱掉这个…”你明白吗？我理解她，而且我认为在内心深处，她是个甜美的女孩儿。

SB：所以你会对她说，别脱衣服，保持得体，因为有孩子想要像你一样，你有责任在身？

MJ：是的。

SB：当你成名时，你一直明白这种责任的重要性？你知道你作为偶像和领导潮流的人的巨大责任？

MJ：对。我不认为我在舞台上做过失礼的事，从不。就像你说过的Bobby Brown会让一个女孩上台，然后他就开始抚摸和摩擦那个女孩，你知道，就在所有人面前。警察逮捕过他好几次。他就像在舞台上做爱，观众里面还有孩子呢啊。我的演出跟这个完全不同。

PS：解释几个人名：
N Sync－超级男孩组合，主唱Justin Timberlake(贾斯汀&#8226;丁波莱克)
Britney Spears－布兰妮斯皮尔斯(曾经的小甜甜)，和贾斯汀曾是恋人关系
Bobby Brown－波比布朗，美国摇滚歌手

==================================================================================================
第20节：性和谦卑

翻译: feier    校对：lovelymj

SB: Michael，在你的人生中你一直努力保持孩子的特质，回避公开谈论性生活。比如，当年奥普拉问你有关你的性生活时，你的回答是“我是个绅士，不谈论这 个话题”。你觉得我们应该更尊重我们生活中性这一方面么？你认为现实中人们对于性过于开放了，是吗？我的意思是你天生对于这个问题有些害羞。

MJ:是的，我是天生这样。。。恩。。因为我认为那是。。。。。。

SB:个人隐私？

MJ:是的。这是我的个人想法。比如那些裸体爱好人士，你知道那些自然主义者，他们赤裸着外出，他们有不同的看法。恩，可能，我的想法也只是与别不同罢了。

SB:我们不必通过曝光滥交的性生活来增加门票销售和唱片销量对吗？

MJ:是的。那是荒唐的，就像有些歌手使自己的裤子出现激突，那样很荒唐，我也不认同。他们那样做令我非常厌恶。很令人尴尬难堪。我不希望有任何一个人看我的时候眼光朝下走，像是特意要寻找那个（即使我穿着金色的裤子）。那会使我非常非常难堪，噢，上帝。
（lovelymj：色女们，注意了哈）

SB:那难道不是一个没有自信的想法吗？他们认为自己的舞步不够好，所以需要突出其他一些东西。

MJ:是的。

SB:你有什么话想对像布兰妮.斯皮尔斯这样的人说的吗？比如“看，你很漂亮，又有才华，你不需要作践自己，你是如此的有才华，不需要脱掉每一件衣服来让人们关注你。就像麦当娜，她常常被批评，就是因为她总是大量使用性感诱惑力来得到人们的追逐，以使自己更为出名。”

MJ:哦，是的
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:44
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-25 08:22 编辑

第21节：恐惧

翻译: maryruan  校对: BestMJ/ lovelymj

SB：你会心存恐惧吗？比如说你知道人们想要打倒你，你会害怕吗？

MJ: 作为艺人的我不会。我像是一头狮子。没有什么可以伤害我，没有我的允许谁也不能伤害我。我不会为这事儿烦心，尽管过去我被深深伤害过、触痛过，当然也被从中拯救过。

SB：你现在没有生活在恐惧之中，是吗？

MJ：没有

SB：你觉得是孩子教给我们不要害怕吗？一方面，他们也害怕，怕狗啊，怕黑啊，等等；另一方面，他们不害怕去爱，去需要。

MJ：我们去听、去观察，去学习。我们敞开心扉、思想和灵魂。是的，我们能够（从孩子身上去）学，但你也必须要认识到。。。。。

SB：成人常常比孩子有更多恐惧。

MJ：没错…会使你神经崩溃的那种。成人常常以很多方式折腾自己，比如担心某件事情直到把身体搞垮。如果孩子们有他们非常想要的东西，他们会一直说，一直说 直到得到那个东西，因为他们没有别的方式。（他们会说到）你让步为止，这非常可爱。我常常跟他们说：“如果这就是你生命中最需要担心的事，那你就是个幸运儿。如果这是你最大的问题，那你真幸运啊。”在未来的某天你会意识到，在当时那确实对他们很重要，这很可爱。那可能只是最简单的事情，真棒啊。

SB：所以我想要说的是：一方面，有许多事情使你害怕(Michael曾告诉我他怕狗)，这些是典型的小孩子才会怕的东西。顺便说一句，你对恐惧的喜爱就像是亚当和夏娃。你知道他们喜欢冒险。上帝对他们说：“这就是禁果拉，它很危险。” 而恰恰是这个原因让他们想要偷食禁果。一方面，你害怕凶恶的狗。

MJ：是的，我不喜欢(恶狗)那样的东西，它让我害怕。或者，如果你把保护宝宝的母狮逼到死角…我不知道人们是不是管那些宝宝叫小狮子还是什么…母狮被逼上绝路了，它会保护自己的地盘，所以你不能再过去了，你不能过界。我不明白，当人们拿着枪射杀大象的时候…小象每次都惊慌失措，它们尖叫着乱成一团。它们的妈妈倒在血泊中，小象就像疯了一样团团转。我不明白人类怎么能这么做，这深深的伤害了我，太凄惨了。

SB：你在非洲的时候会去观察野生动物么？

MJ：会阿，会阿。

SB：你会接近有危险性的动物吗？

MJ：会啊。

SB：你不害怕？

MJ：不害怕，才不。我喜欢观察野生动物。特别喜欢。

SB：所以你看，这种恐惧挺矛盾的：你害怕蜘蛛，害怕那些小孩子会害怕的东西，但是你却不怕狮子。

MJ:不怕，狮子很迷人。

SB：在Neverland，我看见你离一条眼镜蛇只有一尺之遥，记得吗？

MJ：是的，还有响尾蛇，我们还摸了摸它。响尾蛇非常非常(危险)…我是说，它能杀了你。

SB：那你还是不害怕这样的东西？

MJ：那些对人类有危险的东西很让我着迷。拿鲨鱼来说，为什么我们这么迷恋鲨鱼？因为它能致人于死地。当你喊道： “看，鲨鱼”，每个人都会说：“哪呢？什么？谁 啊？”。你知道的，如果你说“一条梭鱼”，没人会关心，你就明白了“(因为这)只是小东西而已”。（喜欢那些危险的东西）是由于它们的危险性，还有那些传说，那些民间故事。我喜欢所有这样的东西…我想我喜欢PT Barnum(貌似是个娱乐泰斗)所喜欢的东西，你知道的，能吸引人的，我喜欢这个…这就是我喜欢魔术的原因，还有霍华德&#8226;休斯(好莱坞冒险家)。这些我都喜欢。

SB：尽管这样，你最怕什么？我知道你害怕坏人，你不喜欢坏人。

MJ：我不喜欢又高又大的坏人，他们看起来很有攻击性。这也是我为什么讨厌那个人，你知道的那个谁。当他问我话的时候，那伤害了我，我根本不喜欢这样。一个人怎么能粗鲁成他那样？如果那是他的想法，他自己留着好了，别说出来。(Rabbi没道破他们谈论的是谁)

SB：你不喜欢高大的、爆脾气的好斗…的人吗？(M同学：拜托，谁喜欢啊)

MJ：不喜欢。在我的世界中，他们一直很坏。尽管也有一些温柔的大个子们，可是那些高个儿通常会让我觉得讨厌。

SB:但是你的保镖是高个子啊…(M 同学：先生，你跑偏了              L 同学：没事儿，等会儿咱家迈跑得更偏。)

MJ：他们是挺高的…

SB:但是他们很好啊…

MJ：对，我要确保他们是好人。他们也必须是绅士。并且他们都知道，如果小孩走上前来，你不能把他们打发走。如果孩子过来要签名，你要礼貌的铺开红地毯(欢迎他们)。他们都知道，这个很重要。我指的是，白兰度除了给孩子们签名外谁也不给，除非是小孩，否则不签名。我觉得这样做很甜蜜，你可知道？

SB：你还害怕什么？

MJ：还害怕什么，嗯…(考虑中)

SB：狗。我不明白为什么小孩子会害怕某些东西。(讲了关于他女儿Baba的一个故事，说她在电视上看见一个怪物就开始又哭又叫)

MJ：什么节目？(M同学：呵呵，跑题挺快啊)

SB：我想是“穿黑衣的BEN”之类的

MJ：哦~~~~ （L同学: 这孩子估计也看过），看的DVD么？但是其他的孩子对这个还好么?他们知道那只是一个电影，不是真的么？

SB：是啊，我并不真的允许他们看这些，可是他们设法拿到了，所以我和他们一起看。。Baba看到第一个人就。。。。

MJ:是的。那个不适合Baba。Prince 和Paris喜欢“侏罗纪公园”，尽管片中有暴力和枪战。但是我想让他们看好的影片。不需要看太多，只要看伟大的电影，伟大的艺术。

=============================================================================

第22节：生活在玻璃鱼缸里

翻译: jessicayang  校对: BestMJ/ lovelymj

SB: 关于名望呢？你对名望的弊端有什么看法？名气会给你带来哪些不喜欢的东西呢？

MJ: 我不喜欢自己变成一个偶像，我跻身名流之后成为一个偶像，一个四海皆知的特殊的人，（我并不耻于这么说）。然而嫉妒随之而来。我曾经见过一些非常可怕的嫉妒心理。

SB: 你从其他名人身上察觉过这种嫉妒么，这很容易感应到么？换句话说你在离他们很远的地方就能感受得到么？

MJ: 我见到过。但是一旦他们跟你面对面的接触的时候，他们总是，总是会改变。他们会发现我跟他们原先想的那个男人根本不一样。有些人在见到我之后，真真切切的在我面前哭泣。有一些粉丝会这样，而且通常有两种类型的粉丝。一种会说：“哦 我的上帝！我的上帝！我的上帝！”然后他们会晕倒，你得扶住他们。而另一种就会突然说一句：“你好”。我就会说：“你好，很高兴见到你，你叫什么名字？”他们会告诉你他们的名字，可是那时候他们还是对我有点看法的。我只是简单的温柔相待，然后他们就开始哭泣。我说：“你们为什么哭呢？”他们会说：“因为我们没想到你人这么好。” 然后他们离开时我在他们心中就变成了与开始想象的不一样的一个人。我也会问：“那你们觉得我应该是怎样的？”他们说：“我觉得你会自大而且傲慢。”“我说：”请别总是轻易去判断别人，我绝不是那样的。“他们会对此印象深刻。我保证他们离开的时候会十倍，甚至是千倍的爱你。我想任何东西都无法战胜友善和爱，就是这么简单。

SB: 你总是能以友善和爱来融化一颗坚硬的心么？

MJ: 是的。

SB: 那些来自于其他明星的嫉妒呢，在你的职业生涯中这种嫉妒心理多么？

MJ: 有很多。他们欣赏你并且知道你很棒很优秀是因为他们妒忌，因为他们也想成为你这样的人。”M"就是其中之一，麦当娜就是其中的一个。她嫉妒我。她是女的，是一个女人，我想这困扰着她。我想女人们不会为了另一个女人而疯狂，男人们也不会轻易动感情会去为一个女人尖叫。我得到了这样疯狂的喜爱和崇拜但她却没有。

SB: 嫉妒是不分角色地位的么？有些高手会让你更加拼命努力，你嫉妒过他们么？

MJ: 从来没有，只是敬佩，纯粹的敬佩。

SB: 所以和嫉妒相比，羡慕能带来更伟大的成就。因为那是积极的。所以你会看着Fred Astaire（注：美国著名电影演员，舞蹈家，以优雅高贵的舞姿著称，曾被誉为“最伟大的舞蹈艺术家”，于1987年逝世）然后说：“我也能做到。”

MJ: 是，就是这样。就是一种激励，不是嫉妒。嫉妒的心理是错误的，但是人们会去嫉妒，不是么？人们不是经常看到一个人做的很棒然后就会非常妒忌么？

SB:  当然，但是你从没有这样的想法么？

MJ: 我不明白有这种想法的人。
-----------------
SB: 对你来说从来都是激励么？你总是心怀敬畏与惊叹的来看待那些天赋异禀的人么？

MJ: 你觉得一个人会妒忌上帝么？(Ｊ同学：其实我觉得迈已经有点无奈了……）

SB: 当然。看看斯大林和希特勒，他们就想成为上帝，他们想决定人们的生死。

MJ:  Wow.

SB: 因为他们失去了感知敬畏的能力。（之后SB说关于那些人成为上帝的敌人之类，略掉）除了嫉妒之外，还有什么名人效应是你所不喜欢的？

MJ:有名。（Ｊ同学：觉得跟没回答一样，呵呵）

SB: 你是否也不喜欢不能正常地走在街上？

MJ: 并不是。我挺喜欢人们认出你然后友好地跟你说：“你好”，然后会有一群人围着你之类的。

SB: 当我跟你一起坐在车里离开酒店时，Michael, 有两次我们都看一个黑人小孩子骑着自行车，在纽约最危险的街道上跟了我们四～五英里， 就是为了要你的签名。然后你让车停了下来确保他得到了签名。在跟克林顿总统吃过饭后，我们也看到另外三个孩子跟着车跑了一英里直到你对司机说：“停车。”然后你来给他们签了名。你经常遇到这样的人？

MJ:  哦，天哪，Shmuely,有时候会有上百的人这样做。比你所见的要槽糕得多得多。他们会开始毁坏东西，然后事态看起来就像是暴动。（我想在这迈不是想说什么fans的不好，他只是讨厌那些搞破坏的人，再说如果真是王的fans也不会那么没素质）

SB: （当我们走出卡内基音乐厅时我就在Micheal旁边，我可以保证他差点没被撕碎）
       所以只要人们表现友好，你都会高兴地被认出来么？

MJ: 我认为我们作为名流的工作，我认为任何人，包括雕塑家，作家，画家，歌手，还有舞者这些被上帝赐予特殊天分的人就是为了带给人们欢乐和暂时抛开现实的感觉。那就是我们的使命，带来快乐。

SB: 还有什么是你对作为名人所讨厌的？显然，你讨厌那些小报消息？

MJ: 当然讨厌。我讨厌做那些事的蠢蛋（jerks)。我认为种族歧视，嫉妒，邪恶有一部分就是小报散布出来的。他们把消极挫败的情绪带给那些想做些有意义事情的人们，这真是糟糕。如果真有人相信那些东西，那他就是疯了。我的意思是我真希望有种方法能彻底清除这些东西。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:45
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-26 02:41 编辑

第23节：雄心和耐心，嫉妒和宽恕，对媒体的愤怒

翻译: maryruan  校对: BestMJ/ lovelymj

SB：我看到了人们怎么不择手段的和你扯上关系，他们想要沾你的光来成名。他们想要被(公众)看到和你在一起，被拍到和你一起。但是有些接近你的人又来伤害你，控告你。你有没有碰到过他们过来和你说：“我真的很抱歉，我利用了你，对不起？”你有过这样的关于宽恕的经历吗？

MJ：我希望有，我希望人们是这样甜蜜，能承认他们做过的错事。

SB：一个也没有么？从未有过么？没一个人过来说“对不起Michael，那天晚上的聚会上我说我很了解你，其实不是那么了解，我利用了你的名声来出头”？你有没有听别人说起：“噢，是啊，我和这个家伙说起了你，他说他非常了解你，他说他是你最好的朋友。”但是你却从未听说过他？

MJ：经常有。有时为了不伤他们的心，我就认同了，就像我真认识他们正在谈论的那个人一样，因为我不想是那个人难堪。（L同学：哭死了，人家利用你，迈迈阿，你咋还担心不让人难堪呢？）

SB：所以你会说“对的，我认识你说的那个人”。

MJ：但是我真正想的是：我真的不知道你们说的是谁啊。（这里迈迈用了who the heck,好委婉哦。。。。连hell都不说。。）

SB：没一个曾经伤害你的人过来请求你的宽恕吗？(跳过若干) 可是Michael，在你一生中有没有过必须去原谅一个人？你原谅过一个没有请求你原谅的人吗？你原谅过伤害过你的人吗？(M同学：这位先生比唐僧还啰嗦)

MJ：当着他们的面？

SB：从你心底(原谅)。

MJ：当然。

SB：你看到过一个卑鄙小人，而且你总能原谅他们。

MJ：是的。因为圣经告诉我：“原谅他们，因为他们不知道自己在做什么”。所以，就原谅。(M同学：宽容的MIKE，让人动容)

SB：你觉得在这方面你做得很好？

MJ：是的。

SB：所以现今的你，在心里不会对任何人生气？

MJ：我对媒体生气。我非常痛恨、憎恶媒体，我也很讨厌那些故意伤害小孩的人，还有他们在战争中对小孩子做的那些事。我一直试着寻找一种途径来试着对这样的情况做些事情。

SB：那么宽恕呢？有人伤害了你。孩子们确实打架，但他们不记仇。你能真心实意地原谅那些伤害你的人吗？(这位先生真执着)

MJ：能。

SB：甚至我都不能做到这样。但是我跟你提起Roseanne Barr，因为我上过她的电视节目，通常是客座嘉宾，后来我看见她无端地对你进行负面评价。

MJ：她对我很不好，这就是为什么我在犹豫(可能是犹豫要不要上她节目)。

(Rabbi大谈他和Roseanne的友谊，并且对Michael没有跟他说Roseanne的坏话，即使她伤害Michael在先而大加赞赏，Michael沉默不语，没和Rabbi谈论她)

SB：你可以跟我说说这个话题。（L同学：= =！ 执著的套迈迈的话阿。咱家迈能上当么？明明就不喜欢她，也不想撒谎，所以就。。。。）

MJ：我不会恶意攻击她。

SB：我明白了。你能原谅他们吗？在他们心里，也是没有恶意的。

MJ：你知道的，耶稣说：“他们不知道他们在干嘛”。他们甚至不认识我。他们的所作所为根本站不住脚，他们怎么能说那些呢…他们甚至不认识我！你相信你读到的那些吗？

SB：所以（你）还是会全盘原谅吗？

MJ：是的，因为Roseanne后来到后台找我，像个可爱的小狗一样，她赞扬我，还说对那些表示抱歉。

SB：你还有其他类似的事例吗？

MJ：麦当娜从未道歉过，她嫉妒。

SB：她想成为世界第一巨星?

MJ：是吧。她在嫉妒。

SB：你不能理解，你也许会说：“你在嫉妒什么啊？你做你的，我做我的…”

MJ: 但同时，她又会来看我的演唱会，还会哭。她在那，并因为一首歌曲及我的演绎而泪流满面。在她身上有些好的品质。

SB：在她身上有好的品质。但你的意思是她的嫉妒蒙盖这些好品质。但是如果有人这样做了，他们甚至不必向你请求原谅，因为你总会原谅他们的？

MJ：是的。

SB：我看到过你和杰雷诺(NBC的脱口秀主持人)开玩笑，(那时)你和伊丽莎白泰勒参加一个慈善义演，你当时穿了一件红外套。

MJ：棕色的外套。

SB：你看见了杰雷诺，而且还…

MJ:他当时和我还有福特总统、西尔维斯特&#8226;史泰龙(动作明星)、伊丽莎白泰勒以及西德尼&#8226;波蒂埃(只是一个演员)坐同一张桌。当他走过来坐下的时候，我就走过去，开玩笑地(作势)掐他的脖子 [因为他总是讲Michael的负面笑话]，他就“嗯嗯啊啊。”伊丽莎白泰勒于是跟他说：“你说过Michael的坏话吧？”，他就“啊？”。后来那天晚上，他和我握手，眼神温暖友善。（不过）第二天他给我的办公室发了封信，信上说“Michael说他会来我的脱口秀。你们能否安排一下，让他能上我们的节目？”。我从没说过那话，所以不知道该怎么解围。但我不会把他叫到一边恶意的回嘴，我只是禁不住做了那个事(指和杰雷诺开玩笑)[大笑]。

SB:真可爱，每个人都看到了？

MJ：是的，他们都看见了。话说他脖子很粗，我的手几乎拢不过来呢。(M同学：哈哈，够粗的)

SB：伊丽莎白泰勒这么维护你，你觉得怎样？她像是你多年的挚友了，在童真特质方面，她怎么样？

MJ：我们来自同样的地方…

SB:她很忠诚？

MJ：她很忠诚。我们一样，她能够和我来自的地方产生共鸣。她很好奇，你看看她的眼睛就知道的。就像是心电感应，你能感受到，真的，我们初次见面时，不说一句话，只能感觉到，就像是和秀兰邓波儿。我们是一个世界的人。


============================================================================


第24节：MJ与歌迷间的爱：相濡以沫

翻译: 飞扬清婉  校对: BestMJ/ lovelymj


SB: 让我谈一下这个。你在孩提时代受过一些伤害，没有得到你所需的爱，你是怎样克服这些缺憾的？你是怎样学着去弥补你所不能享有的那些基本的东西的？

MJ: 我想音乐与舞蹈给了我很多帮助，那就象治疗一样。（我可以）通过歌曲表达自己的感受，在舞台上释放激情，并且得到了歌迷百倍回报的爱。

SB: 这弥补了你所没有得到的？

MJ: 是的。因为当一个歌迷走过来，真的，某个人走近你并且说：“我非常爱你。”这会让我感觉很好。我永远都不会厌倦听到这些。

SB: 真的吗？你是否会觉得有些狂热的歌迷，为了试图接近你，有时会做得太过火？

MJ: 不，不会的，我喜欢这些。我爱我的歌迷。我爱他们的每分每毫，当我看到他们支持我关于家庭与孩子的理念时，我太开心了。他们做了很多孩子和婴儿的大图片，我一直保存着。他们理解我。你知道吗？他们确实理解我想表达的。

SB: 所以你从歌迷那里得到了没有从父母那里获得的东西，但这有一个很大的区别。父母应该给予孩子的是无条件的爱，即使你什么人也不是。有一次有人问比尔克林顿的母 亲，Virginia Kelly，她喜欢哪个儿子多些，比尔还是罗杰？比尔成为了总统，可以让她骄傲。罗杰吸毒，是个游手好闲的父亲。

MJ:她有不止一个孩子？

SB: 罗杰是比尔克林顿的兄弟。

MJ: 他吸毒？

SB: 是的。我还知道他因为贩卖毒品坐过牢。

MJ: 真的哦？

SB: 并且他有了孩子后也依然游手好闲。（中间跳过）。她（他母亲）被问到“一个儿子是个懒汉，一个儿子是总统，你是否爱比尔多些？”她回答道：“你在说什么？ 你糊涂了吗？我两个儿子都爱，我对他们的爱是同样的。”所以迈克尔，歌迷对你的爱与家人对你的爱是有区别的。父母的爱是无条件的，歌迷爱你是因为你能够唱歌、跳舞。或许你真的能从歌迷那里获得无条件的爱吗？

MJ: 这很难判断，因为我不是他们。恩，我想当他们发现我是什么人，以及我是怎样看待他们的，我所做的让他们对自己感觉良好时，他们会无条件爱我的。我知道他们会 的，我能感觉到，我能看到。你同我一起出去几次，就会碰到那些死忠的歌迷，你会看到一些东西。这难以置信，就象一种宗教体验。他们睡在大街上，手举蜡烛， 带着全家人在那里。这一切非常美妙，我喜欢看到他们带着孩子来，这让我心里感觉非常快乐。

SB:问题的关键就在于他们最初爱上你时是因为你的歌曲与舞蹈，但之后他们超过了那个界限。

MJ: 是的，他们发现我是怎样的人，以及我想传递给他们的……在音乐中有超越节奏与旋律的信息，一些具有相当深度的东西。

SB: 为什么你会有这么狂热的歌迷？我能说一下他们有多狂热吗？我没给你看过，可是我写了那篇关于你、梦幻庄园以及你的生日的文章之后，我们收到了成百上千封的电子邮件。你真得看看。他们中的半数建了自己的Michael Jackson网站。看起来有成千上万个的Michael Jackson网站。

MJ: 是的，是的。

SB: 你是怎样做到这些的？我是说说每个人都有自己的拥埠。那一天我们谈到辣妹，她们确实有过很多歌迷，但现在这些歌迷哪去了？为什么你有这么多死忠的歌迷？

MJ: 我想，我不是那种只流行于一时的艺术家，上帝赋予了我某些天赋，这种天赋让人们、公众同我一起成长。当他们同我一起成长时，那更象一种情感上的联系，他们愿意接近我就好像我是他们的兄弟一样。我让人们走近我说“Michael!”，同我谈话，抓着我就象我是他们的兄弟姐妹一样。我是这样做的，你知道，你得习惯这样。 他们真的感觉你是属于他们的。

SB: 就象你是非常熟悉他们的人？

MJ: 是的，终我一生我都需要习惯这些。因为我在他们房间墙壁上，他们每天早上都听到我，我的图片到处都是，就象一个殿堂。有些宗教人士说这是偶像崇拜，但我不 认为这是偶像崇拜。（译注：基督教禁止崇拜偶像，这里的偶像崇拜是指宗教意义的，不是我们通常讲的喜欢某个歌星影星类的）

SB: 好的，但为什么不是偶像崇拜？

MJ: 我从来没有写过，也从没有听说过（我的歌迷宣称我是神）。也许确实有旗帜标语上写着“你是神”。我们确实有类似那样的录影，但从没有在电视上放过。我们有一些标语旗帜上写着那些，但我不认为这是坏事，因为我所讲的是爱，拯救家庭……

（跳过SB的废话）

SB: 所以这不是偶像崇拜，因为你把自己归类为一种更高价值意义，并宣称自己代表了这些？

MJ: 我确实代表了更高的意义。我不是宣称我是神，但我在传播关于拯救地球，拯救世界，拯救我们的孩子，拯救森林的理念。这些并没有错，不是吗？

（跳过SB的废话）

SB: 对我来说这就是偶像崇拜。

MJ:好吧，但我不是这样看的。

SB: 相反的一面就是“我可能是个英雄，但我是个为更高理念奋斗的英雄。”

MJ: 如果你看过我的演出，你就会知道这根本不是关于我本人的。巨大的屏幕上播放的是人们砍伐雨林，饥饿的孩子伸出无助的手。那情景很动人，人们的情绪被感染了并开始哭泣，那非常激动人心。

（译注：文章提供者的话）
我眼里全是泪水……啊。Renee与我决定跳过第四部分---SB与Katherine Jackson的对话，因为没有什么新的与有价值的东西了。一些基本事实：Michael接受了洗礼，只有他与Rebbie接受了。Katherine觉 得Michael有点象她一样软弱，所以她总对MJ说不要象她，MJ太好心并很难向人们说“不”这一点让她有点受不了。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:48
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-11-23 04:59 编辑

第25节：恋爱关系、想要成为你的女朋友

翻译: BigBee  校对:  lovelymj

SB: 你知道小孩们怎么经常做结婚的游戏么？他们会告诉你他们爱上班级里某个人了。小孩似乎天生就很浪漫，你也总是很罗曼蒂克么？

MJ: 我并不是故意去做，可也不是不浪漫，我只做我自己。

SB: 小孩总会有自己的初恋的，他们会彼此相互爱慕，在班级里传字条。

MJ: 我认为那甜美可爱。

SB: 你喜欢制造浪漫么？你是一个喜欢给别人做媒的家伙么？

MJ: 不，我从不这么做。人家太害羞嘛，从不做这种事情。我非常像我妈妈，我们常常问母亲“你亲吻爸爸么？” 她会说：“别问我这些问题啦。”然后我们追问：“妈妈你到底亲他么？”她说：“我不要谈论这样的问题啦。”之后我们又问 ：“好吧，你是怎么遇到爸爸的？谁让你们结婚的？”

SB: 所以你成长的环境使你对于爱与浪漫的理解是矜持而又庄重的？

MJ: 是的，我们从不说这些。

SB: 你曾结过两次婚，Michael.你还相信爱情么? 或者说你有过伤心的经历，因此你很难去相信了？

MJ:不，我相信爱情, 我只是羞于表达而已. 我们谁也没让父母去参加自己的婚礼。我们不信那个，我们太羞怯了。我永远也不敢让妈妈参加我的婚礼的。如果我妈坐在那里，我就无法将结婚仪式进行下去了。这就是为什么我们都逃出去，然后秘密的结婚。我妈妈会在报纸上知道，她不会介意的。因为我们都和她一样，换做是她的话，她也会做同样的事情
。
SB: 所以爱必须是种隐藏起来的感觉？

MJ: 这是种很私人的，朦胧模糊的情感。

SB: 凡是模糊的事情都是很私人的么？

MJ: 是的。

SB: (告诉迈在恋爱这件事上不要过分躲藏，他的父母毫无疑问应当参加他的婚礼)所以说你相信爱情，但是父母的教育使你羞于表达？

MJ: 人家害羞嘛. 我不了解对我这个有多擅长，因为我害羞啊。在这件事上我和有些人不一样，我听说有的男人和女孩子在一起的时候真的会很诗情画意，总是会说“宝贝这，宝贝那”。我不是那种类型的男人。这种事我会简单的直接说出重点。（小L不厚道的猜想：直接说出重点？哦哈哈哈。。。。）

SB: 当你做音乐录影带时，如果你想要表达浪漫爱意之类的场景，你会怎么办？

MJ: 这就是我要亲自选女演员的原因，我要觉得她们可爱才行。如果我喜欢她们，我就可以做出很好的音乐录影，就像你在我的短片中看到的一些女孩子，我选择她们因为我真的很喜欢她们。可是这后来就成了一个问题，因为她们也开始喜欢我了。但是我对他们并不是那种喜欢，所以这件事有时会造成问题。

SB: 你可能一直会遇到这种问题，这不仅仅因为你的名气。还因为你是那种女人想和你在一起的男人：你很温柔，绅士，而且不害怕表达自己的情感。女人会为这样不惧怕显露自己的脆弱和温柔的男人去死的（大胡子老爹你 也嫉妒了吧，欲火焚身啊~）然而在好莱坞许多男人总是很自私自利，无法做出承诺。 所以你总能看到这种事情发生，女人死追烂打的纠缠。

MJ: 你啥意思嘛？

SB: 就像你说的， 拍短片应该是职业方面的事情。你只是和女演员合拍一部片子，但是到后来她们却粘上你。

MJ: 的确，有这样的事发生。

SB: 那你是如何把自己并不那样喜欢她们的消息告诉她们呢？

MJ: 当她们看到我走上另一个方向的时候她们就知道了。她们中的一些人会满世界的追逐我的脚步，这太辛苦了。

SB: 那可能会让她们更想要追逐你，因为她们会为你大男孩的害羞而更加弥足深陷。但是我认为过一段时间之后，她们发现你总是躲着她们，她们就会懂的。但是你从未直接的告诉她们别这么做么？

MJ: 不，因为那太伤她们的心了。

= ========================================================================
第26节：爱情的火花与懵懂的爱

翻译: 飞扬清婉  校对:  lovelymj


Michael与SB一起参加了一个“黑领结”庆祝聚会。（译注：black-tie黑领结，指需要打黑领结穿礼服的正式聚会或晚会场合）

SB: 昨晚Cindy Crawford想从你这得到什么？（译注：Cindy Crawford 辛迪 克劳福德，美国著名模特，90年代非常走红）

MJ: 我远远看见过Cindy几次，她与其他人在一起，我们曾经在其几个场合见过……都是隔得比较远那种。我想她可能觉得这是她真正认识我的机会。她也许崇拜我。过来的人有很多。所以你看到的没什么特别。

SB: 你见过象这样的名人举止，象一群狗一样，追逐比他们更有名的人吗？很失身份。

MJ: 是的。还有更糟的。

SB: 她同你讲了什么？

MJ: [模仿Crawford]“你好吗？”我说：“我很好。”“哦，你确认你很好吗？哦，我喜欢你的作品，我喜欢你所做的。你会在城里待多久？”我说：“我在这里工作。我正在录音。”

SB: 你觉得她是不是对你有意思？

MJ: 是的，我觉得可能有点。

SB: 她约你出去了吗？

MJ: 那些女孩会调情的……她们在调情。她很漂亮。

SB: 这太露骨了。昨天同桌的一个银行家对我说：“当Cindy Crawford走近时，她同媒体报道中的形象完全不同，就是另外一个女孩儿。” 我说:“可是她在这里做什么?”

MJ: 你看到Donald Trump走过来吗？（译注：Donald Trump 唐纳德 特拉蒙普，美国房地产大亨，制作与主持过“飞黄腾达”学徒秀节目）

SB: 现在他是个很有趣的男人。

MJ: 我真正喜欢与尊敬的是象戴安娜王妃这样类型的女人。

SB: 为什么？

MJ: 她很有品位，对人们、孩子和世界上发生的苦难的关心是真正发自内心的。她不是在做秀。她让自己的孩子象其他人一样排队等候，我喜欢她这样做的方式。

SB: 那我们能否说这有一点纯洁浪漫的吸引力？你同意这样讲吗？你是否只是想说她是一个非常特别的女人？

MJ: 她非常特别

SB: 她是那种很有女人味的女人吗？

MJ: 非常有女人味并且时髦漂亮。她绝对是适合我的类型。我不喜欢大部分女孩，只有极少数女孩是我喜欢的类型。只有非常特别的女孩才能让我觉得开心，她绝对是其中之一。

SB: 因为她对孩子们的爱？

MJ: 要找到一个和自己极其相似的人很难，一个极其相似的人。人们总说差异导致吸引，我认为这确实有道理。但我想找到一个同我有很多相似之处的人，同我有相同的兴趣，愿意帮助别人，同我一起去医院，照顾象Gavin这样的孩子。这就是为什么你看到我和Lisa Marie总在做此类事的原因。她也关心同样的东西。

SB: 你曾经想过邀请戴安娜王妃一块出去吗？

MJ: 绝对有想过。

SB: 那为什么你没有邀她外出呢？

MJ: 我一生都未主动邀请过女孩外出。都是她们约我的。（L插话：苍天呐，傻迈，戴安娜王妃咋能主动约你出去啊？）

SB: 真的吗？

MJ: 我没办法向一个女孩提出这样的请求。

SB: 如果是她主动约你外出呢？

MJ: 我绝对会去。每次你看到我和波姬小丝一起都是她约我的。每次都是她的主意一块出去。我确实也喜欢波姬小丝。我很喜欢她。

SB: 她喜欢孩子吗？

MJ: 是的。我的第一个女朋友，Tatum O’Neal，她因为电影“纸月亮”获得奥斯卡奖。那时候我16岁，她13岁。我那时很单纯。她想要做所有的事，但我根本不想发生性关系，因为耶和华见证教的一些价值观的原因。我说：“你疯了吗？”。那些价值观中的一点就是对任何人都要友好。当我拉着Tatum的手时，那感觉很奇妙，比任何其他事都好，比吻她或其他任何事都好。当Ryan O’Neal（译注：可能是Tatum的兄弟）与我去俱乐部看一个乐队演出，她在桌子底下握住我的手，我感觉要被融化了。这好似魔法，我们之间迸发着火花。这就是那时候我想要的全部了。但对现在的孩子来讲这根本没意义。她有点早熟，对有些事不那么无知，而我喜欢那种无知纯洁的感觉。

再来谈波姬小丝。她是我生命中的爱人之一。我们约会过很多次。我的房间的墙壁与镜子都挂满了她的照片。我与Diana Ross一起出席奥斯卡颁奖，她直接走到我面前说：“嗨，我是波姬小丝。你会参加颁奖礼后的聚会吗？”我说：“是的。”，感觉自己已经被融化了。我那时23 岁，在“Off the Wall”专辑时期。我想：“她知道我把她的照片挂满了房间吗？”后来我们去了聚会，她问：“可以和我跳舞吗？”。我们就一起去舞池跳舞，然后天哪，我们交换了电话号码， 我一整晚都兴奋得不行，在自己的房间里旋转，非常开心。她很有时髦漂亮。在我们这么亲密之前，我们偶遇过一次，但那时我太羞涩而临阵退缩了。我其实不应当那样的。

至于Lisa，我们仍然是朋友，但她总是四处忙碌。她刚换了电话号码，我们还不知道新号码。

SB: 你能你能立刻识别出（人性中的）纯真吗？

MJ: 立刻就能，尽管我从女人身上发现纯真要多费些气力，因为她们都很圆滑（smooth）。但从男人身上，我一般都能直接看出来。因为他们更开放，就象小狗，而女孩子就象小猫。你知 道如果你度假回家，小狗会一直围在你身边，而猫咪则是“嘿，我不需要你。你自己过来抱我吧”，她们会做出姿态，尽管已经三个月没见，但她们会径直走过不理你。女 人都很聪明，华尔特迪斯尼总是说她们比男人更聪明，所以他雇的女员工要比男的多。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:50
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 03:56 编辑

Love the world；love our children
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:52
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-10 03:56 编辑

Love the world；love our children
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:55
Part 3- Fame in adulthood
THINKING ABOUT AMBITION, SUCCESS, AND HONESTY
-------------------------------

SB: So ambition can be a good thing so long as it is not ruthless, so long as it doesn't involve jealousy and envy?

MJ:Yeah, so long as it is not hurting anybody. Ambition is a wonderful thing. To know how the mind works and the power of thought and how we create our own circumstances in life. And to know all those goodies about the brain because we don't come with instructions when we are born. You have to find the truth to life and once you know those things, it's amazing you know your possibilities.

SB: So you want to foster that ambition in children, not stifle it?

MJ:They have it. You have to just will them on.

SB:Let's talk about honesty. One of the most childlike qualities is brutal honesty. Sometimes telling our children the truth hurts. But they always say it as it is. Especially before they're old enough to learn how to lie.If you are fat they will say you are fat. If you are ugly they will say you are ugly. If you smell they will say you smell. Is that always a good thing, or do we have to be more diplomatic?

MJ:I think we have to teach them to be kind and teach them how you can hurt other people's feelings. We went there [to the recording studio]
yesterday, Prince and I. One of the musicians who works with me is fat, very fat, and Prince said, "He has a stomach which looks like a balloon." I said, "Prince, you are right. But if you see him don't say it in front of him because you could make him cry." He said, "Okay, I promise." Just teach him that you can't hurt people.

SB:Okay, but what about encouraging our children to tell the truth? So you are not saying to Prince that that is not true because that is not a childlike quality to make him lie. You are just saying sometimes you hold the truth inside. You didn't say to Prince, "He's actually fine the way he is. He's not fat."

MJ:I did not.

SB:So it's important to be truthful. Let's say you have a musician who isn't up to speed and he is holding back the whole album. What do you do?

MJ:I just went through it in there with the sting players. One lady was playing completely off rhythm and I told the guy, "Let her continue. But the next day we just can't have her come," and she wasn't told that she could come the next day. But we did it quietly.

SB:So you do sometimes have to deal with these difficult situations and you deal with it with honesty but without trying to hurt them.

MJ:You have to do it without hurting them.

SB: So there is a way of being truthful without being painful?

MJ:Absolutely. I don't go on the casting calls for my short films[Michael always called his music videos "short films"]especially when there are children being cast. I don't want to stand there and say, "Okay let's see what you can do," and they do it and they don't get a call back. Then they'll say, "Michael Jackson turned me down." I have somebody else tape everybody and I look at it at home and decide. I cannot face the pain of them not being accepted. I always have to do it that way.

(blah blah)

SB: So, honesty is very important in the way you raise Prince and Paris.

MJ:[Turning to Prince] Doo-Doo has been on that Prince. That's full of doo-doo. Don't put it on your hair. That's the dog doo-doo shovel. Don't put it on your hair.

( gremlin talks about how the tabloids portrayed Michael being germophobe and that that is not true)

SB:By the way did you hear what I said earlier about Paul McCarteny has supposedly one of the biggest cartoon collections? You were saying about these great artists being childlike?

MJ:Yes, yes. He loves cartoons and takes them very seriously. He collects them. Mine is bigger than his now, if you go into the video library we have got rows and rows because I love cartoons. It is a great escape for me, the world of cartoons.

SB: [In thinking about your success] did you say something to yourself? "I was fortunate, it was from God,it is not just me. This is a divie gift. I have no right to be arrogant?"

MJ:Yeah. People always ask me how I didn't let it all go to my head.Um, because obviously it's not me. It's not Michelangelo. He was touched with divine inspiration. That was a gift. I think you can cultivate something to a certain extent. But to be given a real genius, that's like a gift.

( you don't wanna know what this two-faced gremlin ****s here....)

SB: Judgmental people are always small-minded people.They are nitpickers. How did we go from being big to small, Michael? As we mature, our bodies get bigger but often our minds seem to get smaller. Do you feel that children have bigger hearts than adults? What causes them to shrink?-skipping the blah blah-

MJ:You know why, Shmuely? When you have seen the things I have seen and traveled all over the world, you would not be honest to yourself and the world would be that way. I just couldn't see myself not being touched by the things I have seen, like that village in China, and the things I have seen in Africa and Russia and Germany and Israel. ( Michael gave money to a poor lady and told her to feed the cat, she kept her promise but when t was fattened up - she ate it.)

MJ: I remember this newborn baby fighting to live, newborn with all the things in the nose, in a hospital in Israel. How could you heart not go out to something like that? I said to everybody, the kids, everybody, "Come here kids. You have to see this," because I think they understand the sensitivity of how children are important, helping others, reaching out to the world, to the underprivileged. Being materialistic and showing this sense of me-ism all the time [is something I deplore].

SB-(long question he's asking how success didn't go into Michael's head and how was he able to remain sensitive and to be arrogant and why he visits orphanages and how it happened to everybody else who is famous and successful but not to Michael)

MJ: That's hard to answer. I am just more sensitive to people's pain and love. I think it's just inside me.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:55
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-7 08:41 编辑

The Master of Mystery
typed by renee
SB: Alright, I want to speak about something with you which is very crucial to this book. Of all the things I’ve seen about you, I have to tell you, I have never seen anyone who understands the power of mystery the way you do. In other words, in the Jewish religion the use of mystery is very important. The prophet Isaiah says that angels, the Seraphim, have six wings. Why six? Well “With two he covered his face, wand with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew” (Isaiah 6:02). Isn’t hat amazing? The angels are so modest, so mysterious, that they use their wings to cover up.

MJ: That’s beautiful

(rabbi talks about other examples of mystery in the bible)

MJ: I love those stories.

SB: So in the Bible mystery is very important. I’ve never seen anyone who understands the power of mystery like you. I’ll give you some examples and then I want you to comment on them. Number one, my kids are walking around Neverland. There’s candy everywhere. My kids love it because they’ve never seen this, there’s popcorn machines and there’s snow cone machines, and as long as stuff is kosher, they’re eating this and eating that. And although Prince and Paris are surrounded by this stuff, you say to them “No, only on your birthday you can have this.” Grace told us they aren’t allowed to use the swings and all that so that don’t get bored of it. And whenever we go to FAO Schwartz, Prince can buy toys but he has to wait to open them. And especially when it comes to your career, you’ve understood the power of being hidden.

(rabbi talks more about MJ’s career)

SB: So there are two things I want to ask you. Talk to me about mystery and what it means to you and how did you get the discipline to hold back when you know that every TV show wants you? (rabbi talks A LOT to Michael). So talk to me about mystery. How do you know this, where did it come to you, the power of that which is concealed?

MJ: Wow, you’re so observant. It’s amazing how you notice details. Um I studied…I love psychology, I love magic, I love…I love real beauty. I love real talent. I love when something’s miraculous, when something’s so beautiful you shouldn’t get it. What I love about Halley’s comet, and I say this to my lawyer, Halley’s Comet is no more of a miracle than the moon or sun. Nut we make a big deal about it because you see it once in a lifetime and everybody’s out there to see it. You know astronomers and fans and people and it’s this thing that circles around the solar system but you see it once in a lifetime. If it happened every night nobody would care but to me the moon is just as miraculous. I always talk about deer and dogs and cats. A lot of people go “There’s a deer!” ‘cause they’re shy, they’re always hidden. It’s a big deal to see a deer, I mean, and I appreciate that, how people should appreciate real ability and I always say I don’t care if you’re the most talented person in the world, if you come on TV everyday people will regurgitate you. You have to know how to play your audience. You have to know that and it’s true, Shmuley. And it’s not just a game. But it’s real for me, it’s real for me. It really is.

SB: How do you know that?

MJ: [If you remain mysterious, people will be] more interested, yeah.

SB: If a woman is always taking off her top, no one’s going to want to see her breasts.

MJ: That’s right.

SB: But if she does it once in awhile, that’s what makes it exciting. That’s what makes it erotic.

MJ: That’s right.

SB: But when it’s everyday…

MJ: That’s right.

SB: Like you go to African tribes and women ealk topless, it’s nothing.

MJ: Nothing, nothing. Leave something to the imagination. I believe in that and people are all…

SB: Did someone teach you that?

MJ: No, it just, looking at…learning from nature and learning you know, just watching and studying , being a serious observer. And ummm, you can say to somebody, you can go, “There’s 6 doors, you can open any of those. But the 5th door, don’t open it. Don’t open the 5th door, no matter what.” Of course everyone is going, “What’s behind door number 5?” because it’s the great mystery. And that’s, everyone wants to expose door number five because you know…And I love that and it’s not like a game but I want people to appreciate talent and ability. I only do an album every five years. Other artists do an album every year and my albums outlast and outsell all other artists. And people wait for it. There’s like, you know, a whole pulse going on about this album. Its like a fever, they’re waiting, they’re waiting. It’s important to wait.

SB: So what is it about the hidden which makes it outlast the revealed? What is it about holding back that people want it suddenly?

MJ: I just, I love, I do love the power of mystery, I really do. I think it’s very powerful.

SB: Is it spiritual? What is it?

MJ: It’s spiritual, it’s people conjure up all these ideas, people create it themselves. I mean they used to say, Howard Hughes is up there and he owns the hotel but he stays on that floor, he doesn’t come down. He’s in the dark, he’s in the corner in the bed with long nails and hair down to here and he’s hooked to an IV. So the brain would just go crazy conjuring up all kinds of crazy stories, and I love that. I love Howard Hughes ‘cause he played this big thing. I mean, to me he’s like one of my masters. But, I don’t know, this is the first time I’ve ever said this Shmuley, I love Howard, he’s a genius.

SB: Because what? Because he knew the power of mystery?

MJ: How to play people, yeah. He knew how to make the public interested. PT Barnum was pretty good at it himself.

SB: Is it a matter of just withdrawing? (talks about how he debated the writers of the book, The Rules. Asks MJ if he agrees with the philosophy of the book)

MJ: I don’t. I don’t totally agree. It depends on the individual.

SB: But with you, when you say it’s become about playing the public, is it as simple as withdrawal and they want more? And more ways how to reveal yourself?

MJ: It’s rhythm and timing. You have to know what you are doing. Like, you never see me on award shows saying, “The nominees are…” And I get asked to do very show. Now they don’t even ask. They know I don’t do it. They know not to even ask. They know I don't do it. Or to host the next show or to come out and say like, "Coming up next, Michael Jackson to present the record of the year." You never see me coming out and doing the nominees. I don't do it. They know not to even ask me. It's not what I do.

SB: You will never do something which makes you be the means to another end. You’re either the end or you’re not. It’s about either you or you’re not going to be the road.

MJ: Yeah, and I’m not trying to say I’m holy or God or…

SB: But you’re not going to belittle yourself either.

MJ: I’m not going to, I want…you know? People should respect, you know? Ability and talent, and it’s all for the sake of goodness, really cause my message is for goodness.

SB: I agree with you.

MJ: But really, I’m just trying to conserve and preserve…

SB: This, by the way is a while book unto itself, how you have learned the power of the hidden, of the mysterious. Look out in New York. There are hundreds of thousands or women who want to get married and guys won’t commit to the them. And do you know one of the main reasons is because they’ll have sex with them anyway.

(rabbi plugs a book of his)

MJ: Uh huh.

SB: Why would you marry her if you could have her without the commitment? (rabbi bashes women who have sex on the first date) And by the way, that’s what happened with Madonna. Madonna overexposed herself. She’s still a celebrity but she’s not what she was.

MJ: Yeah, I know.

(rabbi goes on bashing Madonna)

SB: There are few people today who understand the power of mystery. You understand it because there is an intuitive spirituality to your nature that is a real gift. Because of this understanding of mystery, and youre understanding of the power of timingm helps us understand the holy. God only reveals very sporadically and at very choice moments. Mystery and timing are central to revelation.

MJ: I love that. That’s one of my favorite things to think about too.

SB: How hidden God is.

MJ: How hidden.

SB: You’ve got to find him.

MJ: You see all his miracles through him but you don’t see his face, himself, you know? You see through the children.

SB: Which makes you more interested in him?

MJ: Yeah.

SB: You want to find him?
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 05:57
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-7 08:44 编辑

MJ: Makes you want to seek him out and find him. Absolutely. I love that. And some people just throw up their hand and go, “What is this all about, the universe and where is he? I want to talk to him and what is it?” You know I love that. He’s the ultimate. He is. He’s the man.

SB: So this is how we stop people from being bored. First of all one more thing before we move on to boredom. So you instinctively knew timing, mystery? You just knew?

MJ: Yeah, it’s true, Shmuley.

SB: It’s not a like a manager pulled you aside and said, “Michael. You can be a big star. Don’t overdo it.

MJ: No. No way.

SB: Did your brothers not understand it?

MJ: No, they don’t understand it. They would jump on anything, any second. If anybody said, “I want to interview you tomorrow about Michael’s new style of dress, “Sure.” ‘Cause they just want to be on TV, to be on TV. I think people appreciate you much more when you, you know conserve, just hold…you know.

SB: Hold back?

MJ: Hold back and build and give yourself a certain kind of class and make them reach out for you and just…I love gates to a house. I love big huge pillars and gates. You don’t know what’s back there beyond the road. You just see these…You know, you go, “God, who lives in there?” I love that. You know, you never see them but you see the gates and I love that.

SB: But the gates to Neverland are so simple.

MJ: So simple, that’s how I wanted them. Because I don’t want the gates to represent, you know, it’s an act of almost psychology. I was gonna mane them so, kid of,almost…what’s the word? Ummm, I can’t think of the word I’m looking for. I was gonna have people swing them open and really kind of have them funky and tattered, just so psychologically you really feel like you’re coming to a ranch, so that when you go around the bend I want it to change to Technicolor, like the Wizard of Oz does in black and white.

SB: That’s exactly what happened with us. Firs thing we said when we got to Neverland was , “This can’t be his ranch, what are those simple doors?” Then you drive through and you see the sign, “Welcome to Neverland” and then, kaboom.

MJ: Yeah.

SB: It just hits you.

MJ: That, see, that’s important to understand in show business. If you open with too much of a bang, where do you go from there? You crescendo too big, you have nowhere to go. You can’t do that. That’s why I always say, in amusement parks, the guy who creates the roller coaster , the dips, you’re going up at first, way up and you go, “Oh my God, why did I do this?” Then it takes you straight down and it takes you up a little bit, then down, and he’s the real showman, the guy who creates the dips. You know the peaks and valleys, then he takes you straight real fast and up and upside down. He’s a showman. That guy’s a real showman because he understands syncopation and rhythm and structure and that’s important. That’s real important as an artist of show business and most of your artists today know nothing about it.

SB: They all overexpose themselves.

MJ: At all. At all.

SB: Is that your professional greatest blessing, that you were born with that rhythm? You just had that natural timing and you understood it?

MJ: Yeah, yeah, I think.

SB: Is it part of your love for God and his hiddenness and all that, that it’s all one, that you sort of tapped into that divine mystery and you know the power of mystery?

MJ: Yeah, I think, yeah like you say, it’s just something…like the way you speak. That’s the power of God in you Shmuley. (talks more about seeing the power of God in the rabbi)

SB: You just get into the zone, the timing.

MJ: You just get into it, man. You become one with what God gave you. It’s like talking, it’s spiritual. It’s between you and God and the audience is right there with you. How you describe it, I mean, how do you dissect it, how do you analyze it? You really can’t. People say how do you do it? “Well I work out and train.” Well, you don’t.

SB: So yesterday, ‘N Sync came to see you. The lead singer Justin Timberlake and I don’t know who the other guy was. What’s his name?

MJ: Wade is a choreographer for…

SB: Oh, he wasn’t from ‘N Sync, Wade?

MJ: No, he’s a choreographer for Britney Spears and ‘N Sync. See I taught Wade.

SB: Really?

MJ: Yeah, I taught Wade. All the stuff you see Britney Spears and N Sync doing, that whole style came from me ‘cause I taught Wade. Wade’s from Australia and I brought him to America.

SB: So he’s their choreographer?

MJ: Yeah, and he does music. He was on my record label. We signed him to MJJ. He raps, he does everything.

SB: So he was here with Britney Spears, one of the biggest starts in the world right now, and that lead singer of N Sync, and they’re boyfriend and girlfriend. (very long-winded question) Is there any advice you would give them?

MJ: Just try to stay a child as long as you can. Don’t force into adulthood. Don’t force it, don’t push it. Don’t try to be cool and…go to Disney, hang out, enjoy your youth, ‘cause you’ll be old for, I mean you know, just keep your innocence. Have some fun and really be yourself.

(rabbi talks about how after the fact, MJ’s advice was “disappointing”)

SB: So what would you say to these people that are successful in the arts who are younger than you? The N Syncs? You would just tell them to be playful as well, don’t take it too seriously? Would you tell them anything else? Don’t take yourself too seriously or something?

MJ: No, I would always tell them to perfect your craft, always. I’m a very strong believer in working hard. But enjoy it, you know? Like be mild-spirited, playful, have some fun. You’ve got to have some fun, too.

SB: What about, you always say to me how proud you are that your family is a family show, that your concerts are appropriate for children.

MJ: Oh yeah.

SB: Britney Spears was heavily criticized by some in the last MTV awards, like she almost did a striptease on stage.

MJ: Oh…yeah, yeah.

SB: She took this off and that off and just threw off…Do you think she needs to use that much sexuality to get out her message? Or, if she’s really talented she may not need that? Would you give her any advice on that? Or it’s a part of the show and no big deal?

MJ: Umm, I don’t want to condemn her for it ‘cause it’s a show. But she has to realize she has, you know, kids out there you want to be like her and they’ll do whatever she does. I don’t know, sometimes artists don’t realize the danger of what they’re doing. If I took a picture of me with a cigarette, how many kids would start smoking that very day? You know, you have to think about all of that. And I understand, well, it’s just a video, I’m just acting a part, but you’re like their god. I mean…

SB: You’ve always felt that sense of responsibility?

MJ: Uh huh.

SB: You’ve always known how that picture of you appears, people are going to emulate that?

MJ: Yeah, and I understand why some artists may be a little controversial at times. I understand it. You know, if the pres start talking too much about her coming from the Mickey Mouse Club and being, you know, cutie Britney, she might think, “I want to give them some edge so I can strip this. I’m edgier, I’m tougher, I’m…” You know? So I understand. I think deep down inside she’s just a sweet person, you know?

SB: So you would say to her, keep your clothes on, keep it in balance here, ‘cause there are kids who want to be like you and you have a responsibility?

MJ: Yeah, ‘cause I like edge.

SB: You always understood the importance of that responsibility, when you became famous? You knew you had a huge responsibility as an icon and as a trend-setter?

MJ: Yeah, ‘cause I don’t ever think, I don’t think I’ve ever done anything offensive on stage…ever. Like some of these acts, you talk about how Bobby Brown would get a girl up there and he starts grinding her, you know, right on in front of everybody and police arrested him several times. Like having sex right on stage and all these kids in the audience. My show, it’s just totally different.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 06:00
标题: Sexuality and Modesty
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-23 04:58 编辑


第30节：与名流关系恶化——麦当娜及其他人。


翻译：Aojng 校对：lovelymj

头晕脑涨,校对有失误的地方还请大家指出.

SB：（我问了Michael一些关于他名流友人的问题，为什么迈克更能与名人（而非普通人）保持良好关系呢？）

MJ：嗯。。。。可是我在好莱坞并没有真朋友。我只有几个真朋友。

SB：为什么不呢？你为什么不多和那些名流一起出去呢？

MJ：因为我认为他们并不真实。他们喜欢惹人注目。我和他们没有一点儿共同点。他们喜欢去俱乐部，然后就围坐一圈喝烈酒吸大麻，做所有这些我不会去做的疯狂的事。我们没有共同点。还记得我对你说过的话吗？麦当娜在和我出去前约法三章。“我不去迪士尼乐园，明白吗？那过时了。”我说：“我没请你去迪士尼啊。”她说：“我们要去餐厅，之后再去脱衣舞俱乐部。”我说：“我不去脱衣舞俱乐部。”那儿的家伙都混穿衣服！在我对她那么友善之后，她竟向媒体说一些诋毁我的话。所以我称她是个恶毒的女巫。我曾告诉过你，一次我们一起吃饭，一些孩子们围过来。“哦天哪，迈克尔杰克逊和麦当娜！你们能给我们签个名吗？”她说：“滚开！让我俩单独呆着。”我说：“别那样和孩子们说话！”她说：“闭嘴。”我说：“你闭嘴。”这就是我们的关系。之后我们又出去过，我们一起出席奥斯卡颁奖。她不是个好人。我不得不说。她不是个好人。

SB：你周围的人认为被人看到你和麦当娜在一起很重要吗？

MJ：他们对此一无所知。这完全是我俩之间的事。

SB：所以你去尝试过（去和名流接触），但并没奏效？

MJ：对。我去试过了，我每件事都会去试试。

SB：你主要是认为你的价值观与好莱坞的大多数人不同。

MJ：嗯。他们会做一大堆我不感兴趣的疯狂的事。当我和麦当娜一起时，她沉迷于那种讲女人被绑在墙上的书。她有一屋子那种书。她说：“我喜欢SM书籍。”可是我怎么会想看这种书？

SB：我认为很多都只是表象。她曾说过她宁愿读本好书而不是做爱。我认为（麦当娜身上）其它的那些粗俗的东西只是用来培养自己那种出位的表象的。

MJ：她在撒谎。（指她说自己宁愿读书。）我不能做品评。我不知道她是否已经变了，或是她试图声称她已经变了。

SB：她为什么会说些粗俗的事儿？

（Rabbi说了些麦当娜的好话。他说麦当娜是个犹太神秘哲学的追随者，是个慈爱而一心为孩子着想的母亲。）

MJ：我想她喜欢冲击价值观，而且她知道如何引人注意。我想她是真的爱上了我，但我一点也不爱她。她做了很多疯狂的事。我知道我们没有一点儿共同点。但我很确定拥有孩子可以改变一个人。我不知道她现在变了多少，但我确定肯定比以前好得多。

SB：她现在有了两个孩子了。

MJ：嗯我知道。如果你接到这么个电话你会怎么想？她告诉你她正把手指放在两腿之间…我说：“哦麦当娜，拜托别这样。”她说：“我想让你做的是在我挂上电话后，边想着我边摩擦自己。”（……大家意会吧……我就直译了）那就是她说的东西。她真的这样说。我见到她时，她会说：“这就是我昨晚用的那根手指。”太狂放了，简直失去控制了。

SB：但你从小到大所受的教育是所有的浪漫都应含蓄，有一定限度。…你从小养成的价值观和犹太人的核心价值很像。初听到麦当娜说的那种事的确令人吃惊。但那很快会变得乏味无聊。这就是为什么她不得不挑战极限，变得越来越过分来保持人们对她的兴趣。当她们总是裸露胸部你就不会想再看了。你认为那粗俗吗？

MJ：她做的事？当然。她一点也不性感。我认为性感发自内心，并且可以通过行为体现出来。

SB：你曾见过某个比较端庄的女士因为由心而发的性感而更吸引人么？

MJ：是的。我不喜欢女人总是说：“我要去做指甲…我要去做脚指甲…我要做指甲护理。”我讨厌所有那些。我喜欢更顽皮一点的女孩。如果她们摔跤…爬树…，我觉得她们更加性感。尽管我喜欢优雅的人。优雅是一切。

SB：如果一个女孩露着乳沟到处走来走去……

MJ：Frank喜欢那样。

（SB注：Michael是拿Frank Cascio开玩笑。他就坐在我们旁边。我们都笑了。）

SB：一个男人也许会想和那样的女人做爱。但那并不意味意味着他会想和她坠入爱河。

MJ：你当然想看。可我爱上的是天真无邪。我也是对Frank这样说的。

SB：你见过天真无邪的女人吗？或者总的来说你会觉得这一代人正培养那些不纯真的女人，保持纯真是不被鼓励的？

MJ：我希望她们是纯真的。

SB：名流是那些因为错误理由而与他们结婚的人的目标，那些人瞄准的是他们财富和名声。可是当某人因为这些错误理由而对你感兴趣的话，你不会知道么？

MJ：你不会知道。

SB：古传教士说过世界源于内心，深入内心。（worlds that emanate from the heart penetrate the heart）真诚无法伪造。当有人假装喜欢你的时候你难道不能分辨么？

MJ：那很难。因为现在的女人很善于说谎。我的意思是，天衣无缝。她们把谎话说得很顺畅。看看圣经吧。女人能轻易摧毁至高无上的男人，就是因为男人两腿之间的东西。没人能剪掉参孙的头发，但他和黛丽拉发生了关系。（圣经中的故事，详情请参考：http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/88573318.html?si=1）

SB：莱温斯基和克林顿…每个人都忽视的是莱温斯基追求的克林顿。这不是给克林顿找理由，但她也不是什么善碴。

MJ：我前几天不是说过了吗？那个女人带给总统太多痛苦了。一个女人能做多少事去伤害一位总统呢？看看她引起的后果。那就是我不喜欢Barbara Walters的原因，她教唆的太多了。她在电视上教唆大众。她本想今天来这儿但我拒绝了。

（………那听起来就像是两个老妇人间的八卦，无论如何，跳过半页rabbi的唠叨……）

MJ：我现在不喜欢俱乐部，我11岁的时候就什么都见识过了，八岁或者更早，九岁八岁七岁六岁。在俱乐部里斗殴经常发生，人们呕吐的到处都是，尖叫，嘶喊，警车呼啸而至。父亲从不允许我们加入，演出完了就走。但是有时你会被动的陷入一些疯狂的事情。我见过所有的那些。当杰克逊家兄弟还很小的时候，那个女人们在我们之前上台。“接下来，小小的 杰克逊五人组！”然后她脱光了所有衣服。并把内裤扔向观众，男人们抢了它然后猛嗅。我全见过了。她叫Rose Marie，她把她的名字纹在乳房上，还走来走去的展示。大家什么都看到了。所以当我十六七岁时，男孩子们说：“咱们去酒吧吧！”我会说：“你们疯了吗？”他们会说：“不，是你疯了吧？咱们去泡泡妞，喝喝酒。”但我已经见识过了。当我还是个孩子是我已经做过了。现在我只想到成为世界的一部分，去过我不曾拥有过的生活。带我去迪士尼乐园，带我去有魔力的地方。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 06:08
标题: Advice on Fame
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-7 15:51 编辑

Advice on Fame

SB: So yesterday, ‘N Sync came to see you. The lead singer Justin Timberlake and I don’t know who the other guy was. What’s his name?

MJ: Wade is a choreographer for…

SB: Oh, he wasn’t from ‘N Sync, Wade?

MJ: No, he’s a choreographer for Britney Spears and ‘N Sync. See I taught Wade.

SB: Really?

MJ: Yeah, I taught Wade. All the stuff you see Britney Spears and N Sync doing, that whole style came from me ‘cause I taught Wade. Wade’s from Australia and I brought him to America.

SB: So he’s their choreographer?

MJ: Yeah, and he does music. He was on my record label. We signed him to MJJ. He raps, he does everything.

SB: So he was here with Britney Spears, one of the biggest starts in the world right now, and that lead singer of N Sync, and they’re boyfriend and girlfriend. (very long-winded question) Is there any advice you would give them?

MJ: Just try to stay a child as long as you can. Don’t force into adulthood. Don’t force it, don’t push it. Don’t try to be cool and…go to Disney, hang out, enjoy your youth, ‘cause you’ll be old for, I mean you know, just keep your innocence. Have some fun and really be yourself.

(rabbi talks about how after the fact, MJ’s advice was “disappointing”)

SB: So what would you say to these people that are successful in the arts who are younger than you? The N Syncs? You would just tell them to be playful as well, don’t take it too seriously? Would you tell them anything else? Don’t take yourself too seriously or something?

MJ: No, I would always tell them to perfect your craft, always. I’m a very strong believer in working hard. But enjoy it, you know? Like be mild-spirited, playful, have some fun. You’ve got to have some fun, too.

SB: What about, you always say to me how proud you are that your family is a family show, that your concerts are appropriate for children.

MJ: Oh yeah.

SB: Britney Spears was heavily criticized by some in the last MTV awards, like she almost did a striptease on stage.

MJ: Oh…yeah, yeah.

SB: She took this off and that off and just threw off…Do you think she needs to use that much sexuality to get out her message? Or, if she’s really talented she may not need that? Would you give her any advice on that? Or it’s a part of the show and no big deal?

MJ: Umm, I don’t want to condemn her for it ‘cause it’s a show. But she has to realize she has, you know, kids out there you want to be like her and they’ll do whatever she does. I don’t know, sometimes artists don’t realize the danger of what they’re doing. If I took a picture of me with a cigarette, how many kids would start smoking that very day? You know, you have to think about all of that. And I understand, well, it’s just a video, I’m just acting a part, but you’re like their god. I mean…

SB: You’ve always felt that sense of responsibility?

MJ: Uh huh.

SB: You’ve always known how that picture of you appears, people are going to emulate that?

MJ: Yeah, and I understand why some artists may be a little controversial at times. I understand it. You know, if the pres start talking too much about her coming from the Mickey Mouse Club and being, you know, cutie Britney, she might think, “I want to give them some edge so I can strip this. I’m edgier, I’m tougher, I’m…” You know? So I understand. I think deep down inside she’s just a sweet person, you know?

SB: So you would say to her, keep your clothes on, keep it in balance here, ‘cause there are kids who want to be like you and you have a responsibility?

MJ: Yeah, ‘cause I like edge.

SB: You always understood the importance of that responsibility, when you became famous? You knew you had a huge responsibility as an icon and as a trend-setter?

MJ: Yeah, ‘cause I don’t ever think, I don’t think I’ve ever done anything offensive on stage…ever. Like some of these acts, you talk about how Bobby Brown would get a girl up there and he starts grinding her, you know, right on in front of everybody and police arrested him several times. Like having sex right on stage and all these kids in the audience. My show, it’s just totally different.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 06:08
标题: Fears
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-7 23:17 编辑

SB: Do you live with fears? You know people are going to shoot you down, metaphorically speaking. Does that makes you afraid?

MJ:Not as an artist. I am like a lion. Nothing can hurt me. No one can harm me without my permission. I wouldn't let it bother me, even though I have been hurt and I have felt pain in the past, of course, I have been saved by a lot of that.

SB: You don't live in fear now?

MJ:No.

SB: Do you think children teach us not to be afraid? On the one hand they are afraid, they are afraid of dogs, of the dark, and so many other things. On the other hand they are not afraid to love and not afraid to need.

MJ:We listen, we watch, we learn. We open our hearts and we open our minds, open our souls. Yes, we can learn but you have to realize that...

SB: Adults live with more fear than children.

MJ: Absolutely...nervous breakdowns. And they have created their own circumstances in a lot of ways. To worry about something until it destroys your health. If there is something they want very badly, kids will keep on saying it until they get it because they have no other way of getting it. Until you give in, which is really sweet, it's adorable. I always say to them, "If that's the most important thing for you to worry about in life then you are a lucky person. If that's your biggest issue then you are lucky." You realize in the future...for them it's important at the time, which is sweet. It can be the simplest thing too, sweet.

SB: So, the point I was trying to make was that on the one hand there are things that frighten you [Michael had told me about his fear of dogs], and they are classic childhood fears. And, by the way your love of fear is very similar to Adam and Eve. They love danger, you know. God said to them "there is this fruit and it's very dangerous," and that's when they want to eat it. On the one hand you're afraid of nasty dogs.

MJ: Yeah, I don't like that kind of thing. That frightens me. Or if you cornered by a mother cougar among her babies....I don't know if they call them cubs or what...and she's cornered and she's very territorial, you don't go there. You don't cross that line. I don't understand when people take the gun and shoot the mother...and the baby elephants they do the same dance every time. They let off this screech and they turn in circles of confusion and the mother's lying there dead, they spin in circles like they're going crazy. And I don't understand how man can do that. That hurts me so much. It's so sad.

SB: Did you do safaris when you were in Africa?

MJ: Yeah, yeah.

SB: You got close to some of the dangerous animals?

MJ:Yeah.

SB: And you weren't afraid...?

MJ:No. No, I love safaris. I love them so much.

SB: So you see the contradiction of this fear. You're afraid of things like spiders, things that children would be afraid of, but you're not afraid of a lion.

MJ:No, no. I'm fascinated by it.

SB: I mean, in Neverland I saw you get within like a foot of a cobra. Remember that?

MJ:Yeah, yeah. And the rattlesnakes. I mean, we stroked the rattlesnakes. And they're very, highly, highly...I mean, they could kill you.

SB: And you're not afraid of anything like that?

MJ: I'm fascinated by things that are dangerous to men and to just look at a shark. Why are we so fascinated by sharks? Because they can kill you. And you yell "Shark!" and everybody goes "Where? What? Who?" You know, you say, "barracuda" and nobody cares, you say, "shrimp". It's about the danger and the legend of it, it's about the folklore of it. And I love all that... I think I like what PT Barnum liked about it. You know, things that interest people, I love that kinda...that's what I love about magic, and Howard Hughes. I love all that.

SB: What are your biggest fears though? I know you're afraid of mean people. You don't like mean people.

MJ: I don't like big, mean, tall guys that are like aggressive. And that's what turned me off about you know who. That hurt me when he asked me, I didn't like it at all. How could a human being have that in him to be that harsh? If that's how he felt, keep it to himself, you don't say it. ( Rabbi doesn't specify who they are talking about)

SB: You don't like tall, angry, aggressive men...?

MJ: No. In my life, they've been mean. Even though there have been some gentle giants. The tall ones have been turned off of me.

SB: But your bodyguards are tall...

MJ:They are tall...

SB: But they're all nice....

MJ:I make sure they're nice. They have to be gentlemen. And they all know, if a child comes up, you don't turn the child away. If a child comes up and asks for an autograph, you roll out the red carpet of courtesy to 'em. They all know that. Very important. I mean, Brando won't sign autographs for anyone unless they're children. Unless they're a little kid, he don't sign. I think that's so sweet, you know?

SB: What other fears do you have?

MJ:What other fears? Um...

SB: Dogs. I don't understand why children have certain fears. ( tells a story about Baba, his little daughter, seeing a monster on TV and screaming and crying)

MJ:What show was it?

SB: I think it was Ben in Black or something.

MJ: Ohhhh. On DVD? But the other kids were fine with it? They knew it was a movie stuff and not real?

SB: (confirms and explains he doesn't usually lets them see stuff like that and blah blah)

MJ: Yeah, it's not for Baba. It's not for her. Prince and Paris love Jurassic Park, even though there can be violence and guns. But I want them to see great movies if they're great. Not too many but great, great art.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 06:10
标题: life in a fishbowl
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-7 23:17 编辑

SB: What about celebrity? What about the negative things associated with celebrity? What do you dislike about being as famous as you are?

MJ: I dislike when you become an icon, being a celebrity and then becoming an icon, an international phenomenon which has happened to me-and I am not ashamed to say it- and the jealousy that is involved. I have seen some serious jealousy.

SB: Do you feel it around some other celebrities, and it is palpable, or do you feel it from a distance?

MJ: I have seen it but once they meet me facet to face they always, always change. They see I am nothing like that guy. I have had people really start to cry in front of me after meeting me. There have been fans, and there are two kinds of fans. There is the fan who goes, " Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God!" And they faint and you have to hold them. The there's the other fan, who say an abrupt, "Hi." I go, "Hi, nice to meet you. What's your name?" They give you their name, but they have got an attitude. I am just as simple and warm with them and then I see them start to cry. I say, "Why are you crying?" And they say, " Because I didn't think you would be this nice." And they go away a different person. I go, "Well, what did you think I was like?" and they'd go, "I thought you would be stuck up and arrogant." I say, " Please never judge a person. I am nothing like that." They have been so impressed. I'm sure they go away loving you tenfold, a thousand times more. Nothing beats kindness and love I think. Just simplicity.

SB: Have you always been able to melt a hard heart with kindness and love?

MJ: Yes.

SB: What about jealousy from other stars. Is there a lot of jealousy in your profession?

MJ: Absolutely. They admire you and know you are wonderful and great because they are jealous, because they wish they were in your shoes. And "M" is one of them. Madonna is one of them. She is jealous. She is a girl, a woman and I think that's what bothers her. I think women don't scream for other women. Men are too cool to scream for women. I get the fainting and the adulation and she doesn't.

SB: Does jealousy have no role? Were you never jealous of someone in your career who made you work harder?

MJ: Never jealous. Admiration, complete admiration.

SB: So admiration can bring ever greater goals than jealousy because it;s positive and not negative. So you would look at Fred Astaire and say, "I want to be able to do that."

MJ: Yes, absolutely. Complete inspiration, never jealousy. It's wrong, but people are like that, aren't they? It's true? Can't people look at somebody great and get totally jealous of them?

SB: Sure, but you never felt that?

MJ: I don't understand a person who could do that.

-----------------

SB: For you it has always been inspiration? You have been in awe and wonder of those with great talent?

MJ: Can a person become jealous of God?

SB: Sure. Look at Stalin and Hitler. They tried to be God. They wanted to decide life and death.

MJ: Wow.

SB: Because they lose the sense of awe and wonder. God doesn't impress them. He threatens them. They want to be all-powerful, so they can't submit to God's authority. They become enemies of God. [Aside from jealousy] what other things do you dislike about celebrity?

MJ:Being famous.

SB: Do you dislike when you can't walk down the street?

MJ: No, I enjoy when people recognize me and they are nice and say, "Hi", and there is a crowd or something.

SB: When I was with you in that van, and we had left your hotel, Michael, twice we saw a young black kid on a bicycle follow us for about four to five miles on the most treacherous streets in NY, just to get your autograph. And you stopped the car and made sure he got his autograph. We saw three other kids who, after the dinner with President Clinton, chased us for about a mile on foot until you said to the driver, "Stop." And you gave them your autograph. So you see people like that?

MJ: Oh God, Shmuely, hundreds of them sometimes. It's a trillion times worse than what you have seen. They start breaking things and it turns into a mob scene.

SB: ( I was with Michael as we exited Carnegie Hall after our presentation. I can vouch for the fact that he was nearly torn limb from limb.)

SB: Do you enjoy when people recognize you as long as they are nice?

MJ: I think our job as celebrities, I think anybody who has been blessed by God with any sort of talent-be it the sculptor, the writer, the painter, the singer of songs, to the dancer- is to bring some sense of escapism and enjoyment and to the masses of people. That's our job, to bring joy.

SB: Anything else you hate about celebrity? Obviously, you hate the tabloid stories as well?

MJ: Hate them. I hate the jerks for doing that sort of thing. I think racism, jealousy, and just hate-evil-are part of it. They vent out their frustration on people who are trying to do good and it is just sad. If anyone believes it, they are like crazy. I mean I wish there was a way to totally get rid of those kinds of things.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 06:17
标题: Ambition and Patience, Jealousy and Forgiveness, Anger at the Press
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 08:09 编辑

SB: I see how people will do anything to have a piece of you.They want to ride your coattails to fame. They want to be seen with you, photographed with you. But there are people who have have gotten close to you who have harmed you, who have hurt you, who have sued you. Have you got any stories where they come to you and say, "I am really sorry, I used you. I am really sorry?" Do you have any stories about forgiveness?

MJ:I wish. I wish people were that sweet to admit to their own wrongdoing.

-------------

SB: Not one? Never? No one ever came to you and said, " Sorry Michael, but at the party the other night I claimed to know you better than I really did. I used your name to get ahead?" Have you heard stories like that, where someone said, "Oh yes I spoke to this guys. He says he knows you so well. He says he's your best friend. And you have never even heard of the guy?"

MJ:I have that all the time. Sometimes not to break their heart I agree like I know who they are talking about, because I don't want to embarrass the person.

SB: So you'll say, "Yeah, yeah. I know who you are talking about?"

MJ: [When really I am thinking is] I don't know who the heck you are talking about.

SB: No one who has ever hurt you has come and asked for forgiveness?( skip) But have you never had to forgive anyone in your life, Michael? Have you ever forgiven anyone without them asking? Have you forgiven the people who have hurt you?

MJ: To their face?

SB: In your heart.

MJ: Of course.

SB: You have seen someone being mean and you have forgiven them anyway.

MJ: Yes, because I was taught to be Biblical: "Forgive them for they know not what they do." And you do it.

SB: Do do you think you are a better person for it?

MJ: Yeah.

SB: So you have no anger in your heart at anyone today?

MJ: I have anger for the press. I am very bitter, nad and angry with them and I am angry at those who deliberately inflict pain upon a child to hurt them. The stories about what they are doing in the wars to the kids. I always try and figure out a way to try and do something about that.

SB: What about forgiveness? There are people who have hurt you. Children do fight, but they don't bear grudges. Can you forgive people with your whole heart, people who have hurt you?

MJ:Yes.

SB: Even I didn't realize this. But when I mentioned Roseanne Barr to you, because I do her television show often a s a guest, I later saw that she had made a negative comment about you for no apparent reason.

MJ:She has been mean with me. That's why I was hesitant.

( Rabbi talks about his friendship with Roseanne and admiring Michael for not badmouthing her to him even though she hurt him, Michael just went silent and didn't speak about her to Rabbi)

SB: You could tell me that.

MJ: I didn't maliciously attack her.

SB: I saw that. Can you forgive them? There is no malice in their heart.

MJ: You know, "They not know what they do." Words of Jesus. They don't even know me. It has no foundation what they are doing. How can they say that...they don't even know me? Do you believe something you have read?

SB: So it is total forgiveness?

MJ: Yes, because Roseanne came to me later on, like a puppy backstage, praising, feeling bad about all of that.

SB: Have you got other examples?

MJ: Madonna has never apologized. She is jealous.

SB: She wants to be the biggest star in the world?

MJ: Yes, she is jealous.

SB: You can't understand that. You would say, "What are you jealous for? You do your thing. I do my thing...."

MJ: But at the same time she will come to my concert and cry. She comes there and tears rolling down her face for the song and the representation of the song. There are some good qualities in her.

SB: There are good qualities in her. But you're saying she allows her jealousy to mask them at times. But if someone does that, they don't even have to ask for forgiveness because you will just forgive them?

MJ: Yes.

SB: I saw that you made an overture to Jay Leno. You went to a charity benefit with Elizabeth Taylor and you were wearing a red suit.

MJ: Brown suit.

SB: So you saw Jay Leno and...?

MJ: He was sitting at my table with President Ford, Sylvester Stallone, Elizabeth Taylor, Sydney Poitier. When he came to sit down I just walked over to him and started like playfully chocking him [because he always makes negative jokes about Michael] and he was like, "Urgggghhh. Urggghhhhh." And then Elizabeth said, "Have you been saying mean things about Michael?" And he went, "Huh?" Later on in the evening he shook my hand with a warm expression in his eyes and the next day he sends a letter to the office saying, "Michael said he would come to the show. Can you set it up so that we can have him on the show?" I never said that. So I don't know how to take it from here. But instead of taking him to one side and saying something nasty back to him, I wouldn't do that. I couldn't help doing what I did to him [Laughs].

SB: That's cute. Everyone saw?

MJ: Yeah, they saw it. He has a big neck too. I couldn't get my hands round.

SB: What is it about Elizabeth Taylor that is so endearing to you? She is like your closest friend for many years. What is it about her, in the context of these childlike qualities?

MJ: We are both from the same place...

SB: She's loyal right.

MJ: She is loyal. We are from the same place. She can relate to the world I have come from. She's curious. You just look in her eyes and you know. It is like speaking telepathically. You can feel it, it;s true, without saying a word and I felt that seeing her the very first time. It's like that with Shirley Temple [Black]/ We are from the same world.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 06:19
标题: MICHAEL AND HIS FAN'S LOVE: A TWO-WAY STREET
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 08:20 编辑

SB: Let me ask you this. Given that you were somewhat disadvantaged as a child, not being given the love that you needed, how do you overcome what you weren't given? How did you learn to make up for the basic tools that you were deprived of?

MJ: I think music and dance helped me a lot, like therapy. To be able to express your feelings through songs and your emotions on stage and getting all that love back a thousandfold through the fans.

SB: That compensated for what you didn't get?

MJ: Yeah, 'cause when a fan walks up, I mean honestly when someone walks up to you and says, "I love you so much", it makes my heart feel so good. I could never get tired of it.

SB: Really? Do you not sometimes feel that a sick.o fan, a stalker, takes it too far?

MJ: No, nope. I just love it. I just love my fans. I love them to pieces and what makes my heart happy is when I see they support my beliefs about family and children. They have these big billboards of children and babies and they're with me, they get it, you know? They get what I am saying.

SB: So what you didn't get from your parents you get from your fans, but there is one big difference. Parents are supposed to give you unconditional love, even if you don't deserve it. Bill Clinton's mother, Virginia Kelly, was once asked which son she loved more. Bill, who made her real proud as president, or Roger, who had drug issues and was accused of being a deadbeat dad.

MJ:ONe of her kids?

SB: Roger, Bill Clinton's brother.

MJ: Has a drug addiction?

SB: Sure, I am almost positive he was in prison for selling drugs.

MJ: Really?

SB: And he was a deadbeat dad, (skip). And she was asked (his mother) "One son is kind of bum and the other is president, do you love Bill more?" And she said, "What? Are you crazy? I love both my children, I love them equally." So there's got to be a difference, Michael, between how the fans love you, and how your family does. Parents love you unconditionally, but the fans love you because you can sing and dance, or do you feel unconditional love from your fans?

MJ: That's hard, 'cause I'm not in their skin. Umm, I think after discovering who I am and how I see them and make them feel good about themselves, they love me unconditionally. I know they do....I feel it, I see it. You go with me sometime and we go out and you're gonna run into the diehard fans, you're going to see something. It's unbelievable, it's like a religious experience. They sleep on the street, hold up candlelight and they have their families out there, it's just so beautiful. I love seeing the children come, that makes my heart so happy.

SB:So it's the case of originally they loved you because of song and dance, but then they went beyond that point.

MJ: Yeah, they discovered what I'm about, what I'm trying to say.... There's a message in the music that's more than just a beat and a rhythm. There's some real depth.

SB: Why do you have such fanatical fans? Can I tell you how fanatical they are? I haven't even shown you, but that one article I published about you, after Neverland and your birthday, has generated so many hundreds of letters by e-mail to us. You've go to see it. Half of these people run their own Michael Jackson website. There's something like hundreds upon hundreds of Michael Jackson websites.

MJ: Yeah, yeah.

SB: How do you account for that? I mean everyone has fans. It's like when we talked about the Spice Girls the other day. Sure they had fans, but where are the fans now? Why yours such diehard fans?

MJ: I think 'cause they, I've been given the gift that God has given me and I haven't been a "here today gone tomorrow" artist and it allows people, the public, to grow up with me. When they grow up with me it's more an emotional contact and they feel attached to me like I'm their brother. I have people walk up to me [and say] "Michael!" start talking, grabbing me just like they're my brother or sister. I play as if, you know, you've got to go along with it. They really feel that you belong to them.

SB: You've known them for their entire life?

MJ: Yeah, all my life and I have to go right along with it. 'Cause I'm on their wall, they hear me every morning, and pictures are everywhere. It is like a shrine and some religious say it's idol worship but I don't believe it's idol worship.

SB: Okay, why isn't it idol worship?

MJ: I have never written once, nor have I heard, [ the fans claiming that I'm a god.] Perhaps there were some banners that say, "You are God." We do have footage like that but we don't show it on television. We have banners that say that. I don't think this is anything bad 'cause what I'm talking about is love, let's restore the family...

( skipping rabbi's babble)

SB: So it's not idol worship because you yourself have subordinated yourself to the higher value saying that I represent this?

MJ: I'm representing the higher being. I'm not saying I'm God, but I'm saying heal the planet, heal the world, save our children, save the forest. There is nothing wrong with that. Right?

(skipping rabbi's babbling)

SB: The idol worship is where it's about me.

MJ:Yeah, no that's not what I'm about.

SB: The opposite is "I may be a hero, but I'm a hero for a higher cause."

MJ: If you saw my show you would see it's totally not about me. Big giant screens show them cutting the rainforest and hungry children reaching out. It's just so beautiful. People start to cry and get emotional. It's so wonderful.



I have tears in my eyes...ahhh. Anyway Renee and I decided to skip the part 4- Rabbi's interview with Katherine Jackson because there is nothing new or exciting in there. Some facts: Michael was baptized, only him and Rebbie were. Katherine thinks that Michael is as soft as her and she always told him to not be like her, it hurt her a lot that he is too good and can't say NO to people.

If you guys insist we will post that interview as well.
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 06:20
标题: Relationships and Wannabe Girlfriends
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 08:24 编辑

SB: You know how children are always making mock weddings. They tell you they have a crush on someone in their class. Children seem naturally romantic. Have you always been romantic?

MJ: Not on purpose, but not unromantic, I don’t think so. You just be yourself.

SB: Children always have this puppy love thing going on, and they have crushes on each other. They’re always passing notes in class.

MJ: I think that is so sweet and cute.

SB: Do you like creating romance? Are you a matchmaking kind of person?

MJ: No, I don’t do that. I am too shy to do all that stuff. I am a lot like my mother. We used to ask my mother, “Do you kiss Joseph?” She goes, “Don’t ask me those questions.” We go, “Mother do you kiss him?” She goes, “I don’t want to talk about it.” We go, “Well, how did you meet him? Who asked to get married?”

SB: So you were brought up to be shy and modest about things pertaining to love and romance?

MJ: Yes, we don’t talk about it.

SB: You have been married twice, Michael. Do you still believe in romance, or have you had some negative experiences and it is therefore more difficult to believe?

MJ: No, I believe in it, but I am shy about it. None of us have invited out parents to our weddings. We don’t believe in it. We are too shy. I wouldn’t dare in a million years to have my mother at a wedding of mine. I can’t have myself walking down the aisle and my mother sitting there. That’s why we all ran off and got married secretly and my mother reads it I nthe paper and she doesn’t mind. Because we are just like her. She would have done the same thing.

SB: So love has to be something hidden and concealed?

MJ: It’s like private, like mushy stuff.

SB: And mushy stuff is always private?

MJ: Yeah.

SB: (tells MJ not to overdo being secretive in romance, that his parents should definitely be at his wedding) So romance is something you believe in but you have been taught to be shy about it?

MJ: I am shy. I don’t know how good I am at it because I am shy. I am very different in that way. I have heard guys be really poetic with girls and “Oh baby this and that.” I am simply not like that. I am like straight to the point and say it simply.

SB: So what do you do in things like music videos when you’re expected to portray romance and do love scenes and things like that?

MJ: That’s why it is my job to cast the girl, because it is my job to think they are cute. So I can do it if I really like them, like some of the girls you see in my videos. I have cast them because I really like them and it caused a problem afterwards because they start to really like me, and I don’t want to get that serious, and it becomes a problem sometimes.

SB: You probably face this all the time because not only are you famous but you are the kind of guy who women want to be around – soft, gentle, not afraid to express his emotions. Women die for guys who aren’t afraid to show vulnerability and softness, whereas a lot of the guys in Hollywood are stereotypically self-absorbed, self-obsessed, can’t commit. So do you often find that this happens, that women get clingy?

MJ: What do you mean?

SB: Like you said, it is supposed to be a professional thing. You just film something with a female costar, but afterwards they become attached.

MJ: Yes, it happens.

SB: How do you break the news to them that you don't reciprocate?

MJ: When they see me running the other way. Yeah. Some of them follow me around the world and it is so hard.

SB: That probably makes them chase you even more because they are probably drawn to that boyish shyness….But I guess after a while, with you running halfway around from them, they get the message. But you never tell them directly?

MJ: No, because it would hurt them too much.
作者: lilimo    时间: 2009-10-7 07:45
谢谢翻译。希望能把整本书都翻译过来，毕竟我们是不会买这本书的。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 08:19
标题: Thinking About the Perfect Woman
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 08:29 编辑

SB: The same principle of not being overexposed. Would you advise women in relationships to do the same thing? Would you say to people today who get bored of one another, “You know, 50% of marriages end in divorce and so much of it is that husbands and wives just get sick of one another.” They get weary and bored. Would you say that if there was more mystery, if they learned to hold back and leave room to discover one another, then there would be more adventure in their relationship?

MJ: Yeah, yeah. I think going away is good. Like they say, “Absence makes the heart grow fonder.” I totally believe in it. Going away is really important. I don’t understand how people can be together all day with each other and be totally fine. I think it is sweet and beautiful…

SB: Have you seen marriages like that?

MJ: I have seen couples, yes. I don’t know how they do it. Because creatively they have to do so many things.

SB: So the women you have dated, the ones who were smart enough not to throw themselves at you, were the ones that you were more interested in, the ones who weren't always available and you had to chase them a bit?

MJ: The ones who were classy and quiet and not into all the sex and craziness because I am not into that.

SB: They are the ones you are more interested in?

MJ: Aha. I don't understand a lot of things that go on in relationships and I don't know if I ever will. I think that has hurt me in relationships because I don't understand how people do some of the things they do.

SB: Mean things?

MJ: Mean things and vulgar things with their bodies. I don't understand it and it has hurt my relationships.

SB: So for you love is something very pure?

MJ: Very pure. It shocked me some of the things.

SB: What was it about Diana, that kind of a woman, her dignity, that kind of innocence? Do you see that often in people where they have a regal bearing to them?

MJ: No, we don’t see it and that’s what I love. I think she truly cared about people’s feelings and really tried to make the world a better place. I really believe that her heart was out for other people. You could se it in some of the photos where she is touching those little babies’ faces and they are sitting on her lap and she would be holding them. That is not faked. You could see it. When you see the queen come out and she has got these gloves on and she is waving from a distance, you can see the heart. You can see. You put your money where your mouth is and you go in those huts and go in those ditches and sit with them and sleep there. That’s doing it, that’s what I do. Remember when you said you saw my picture in China in some hut, some lady’s hut. I go in there and I touch the people and I see them.

SB: When you are in a meeting, are you able to see who is the hard-nosed business man, bottom line is everything, he’ll manipulate, lie, whatever it takes, and the ones who are pure, more innocent, who you want to do business with? Can you see immediately? Or, on the contrary, do you see with a child’s eyes and see goodness in everybody, which is why you have sometimes ended up with people who aren’t the nicest people?

MJ: That’s true too. It works both ways, but you can detect it and feel it in another person. There is this man on LA and he works in a vinyl record shop and he has got to be in his fifties and he has the spirit of an 11-year-old boy. I always stare at him and he stares at me and it is like this telepathy going on. He talks like a kid and the way he moves his eyes. I say to myself, “This is so interesting.” I’d like to get to know him better and find out what it is. I mean it. It’s amazing. I feel it. I feel it in children right away, of course. I pick up on it like that and children can tell it in you.

SB: It’s almost like a relief. Here is someone who understands me?

MJ: Yeah, Their eyes light up when you come over and they want to play and they feel it.

SB: Michael, have you never met a woman like that who loves those same things, who’d play hide and seek with you, who’d love the water fights with you?

MJ: Not yet. The ones I have had are jealous of the children. All of them. They get jealous of their own kids and start competing with them. That rubs me in a bad way.

SB: Theoretically, if you were Adam in the Garden of Eden and you found an Eve like that, would that be your ideal woman?

MJ: Absolutely. I haven’t found it…I think guys are more apt to goof off. Even when they are much older, in their thirties, and a woman will come in and say “What are you doing? Don’t do that. Are you crazy?” The guy will go, “What, we are just having fun?”

SB: Women almost feel that it is immature if they behave that way, no?

MJ: Yes but if you look in history you never see real serial killer women.

SB: Yes, but they don’t play the way boys do.

MJ: I know they don’t.

SB: (blah, blah, blah) Have you ever found girls who like the practical jokes that you like? Have you ever found a woman who collects comics?

MJ: It is a rarity. If I find one I will go nuts. Especially, if she has those qualities and is beautiful inside. It would be a home run for me. That’s why guys hand out. Because they can do that.

SB: …Mothers are really good at doing homework with their kids and being more nurturing. But the rough playing is what the fathers do. They get on the floor and get dirty, wrestle, build castles with them in a sandpit. (blah blah)…it is the girls in school that are always ridiculing the boys for being immature. “Look at those boys. Look at the way they are behaving.” Maybe the women need to be taught the art of playfulness as much as the men.

MJ: Do you not think it’s embedded in them biologically? Biologically, as a breed, don’t you think women are just a different species?

SB: (blah blah blah -1/2 page of talking), brings up Bill Clinton as an example of being playful

MJ: Riding his bike at the White House. Did you see it? He was riding his bike at the White House to get him to the next meeting. A great shot of him in Vanity Fair. Can you think of Hillary doing that? Nope, not in a million years. I can think of little girls who would join in with play. Girls who are tomboys.

SB: Okay, when they are tomboys. But when they get older, do they still play to the same extent?

MJ: Do you think it is in their heart that they can just be themselves and be dignified?

SB: What women seem to look forward to more than anything else is falling in love. They don’t look forward to the playfulness in the same way. But once they’re in love a carefree playful side is released.

MJ: I have to play.

SB: Is there a difference in how your male and female fans relate to you?

MJ: Sometimes. But I am finding today, and it is so true, that guys are really changing. Guys scream with the same kind of adulation that girls do in a lot of countries. They are not ashamed. They are shaking, “I love you.” We have guys chasing us around.

SB: But the fanatics are women.

MJ: Yeah, they are loyal, women. They have been loyal. They are activists. They will fight you about me.
作者: zhangxyjoy    时间: 2009-10-7 08:25
俺大概算不上英文高手，可是愿意翻译，楼主可以给俺指派一段或N段。
作者: dream1958    时间: 2009-10-7 08:26
感谢LOVELYMJ一直以来有条不紊的翻译魔力与疯狂，现在又给我们带来新面包让我们看到活生生的MJ，好像他不曾离开。每天通过LZ的东西沉浸在对M一步又一步靠近，越来越真实的感受到他。也对后面翻译的TZ先致谢。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 08:49
标题: motherly figures
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 08:31 编辑

SB: Do you find it easier to be closer to motherly figures in your life like Elizabeth Taylor, your own mother, who you always praise, and your sister Janet? Do you find that women are more child-like than men? Are they gentler, are they less competitive, less mean? You have been around some mean women, as well, who behave in a masculine-aggressive way, like Madonna. You told me that she can be mean. Is that a feminine trait or do you feel that she has a real masculine streak in her? Do you find it easier to be closer to women?

MJ: In some ways, yes, and some ways, not. It depends on the age. I have seen some women who are very bitter and mean and they become ladies later. They come into their own and they become good people, I have seen it in my brothers’ ex-wives who were horrible. They were like nightmares when they were young. With time and age they become good people. But they were horrible, just horrible. Then with time they just level out, that’s what I like when they become truly good.

SB: But, intuitively, do you find women easier to get along with? Are they softer than men? (talks about his own view of women)

MJ: I am trying to be real honest with you.

SB: But many of your closest friends seem to be women.

MJ: Yeah women are softer than men. Yeah, that’s true.

SB: Do you think a child star as cute as Shirley Temple, do you think a boy star could be that cute?

MJ: Yeah, but he wouldn’t have the same…Shirley Temple just had something that was meant to give us bliss and make us smile.

SB: Are you more protective of Paris because she is a little girl?

MJ: Paris can stand on her own sometimes much more. Prince won’t stand up for himself. People can push him about and he won’t stand up. She won’t take anything from anybody. She fights. She’s very, very tough. It’s true, man. Prince will let people take complete advantage of him and won’t say anything.

SB: He is more like his father, like you.

MJ: I was like that. My mother always told me, “Don’t let people hurt you. You are too much like me. “ She would cry, “You are too much like me. I don’t want you to be like me. I hurt so much.” Because people take advantage.

SB: But you never toughened up. It seems that you would rather be taken advantage of than do the taking advantage of. It hurts to be taken advantage of. But it doesn’t hurt as much as being a mean and aggressive person. Mean-spiritedness is a form of internal corruption and it makes it impossible to be happy. Notice that evil people never seem happy. They are miserable and they seek to make other people just as miserable as they are.

MJ: Yeah, I’d rather suffer. I hate to say it because I have suffered a lot. God, have I suffered. But I would rather suffer.

SB: You have seen the ugly side of people.

MJ: I have seen the worst…the nightmare of the human condition, the human soul. I would never even think that common man would be capable of behaving in such a way.

(rabbi comments about MJ’s tirade against Tommy Mottola a few months later)

SB: Children never did that to you, Michael. You never saw the ugly side of them? Unless they were influenced by their parents.

MJ: Unless you see a bunch of kids together and they are picking on each other and just to impress each other that they had a bad upbringing. If I were to raise the kids to do some of the things that you hear about in the news, they would be totally different kids. They wouldn’t conceive of doing such a thing. I f I was raised in Jamaica I would have a different accent. If I was an English kid I wouldn’t…it is all about environment. But genetics plays a big deal and teaching and holding and touching and looking in your eyes and saying, “I love you, I need you, you’re here because I love you. I bought you this because I love you.” Like I say to Prince and Paris, “You know why I bought you this?” They say, “Because you love me.” I say, “That’s why I bought it.” They need to know that. I wish I could have heard that more. My mother is great. She is a saint. She is a real saint.
作者: duoduo-la    时间: 2009-10-7 08:56
谢谢楼主！谢谢！
作者: gummykitty    时间: 2009-10-7 09:37
关于宗教的部分我在别处已读过，可以帮忙翻译。
作者: 我爱戆戆    时间: 2009-10-7 09:55
工程浩大！LZMM辛苦了！
作者: lovejackson926    时间: 2009-10-7 09:59
辛苦了啊1!!!!又是一辛苦的楼
作者: lovejackson926    时间: 2009-10-7 10:02
我尽量每天回来多顶贴的！！因为实在是很辛苦啊~~！
作者: lanju7811    时间: 2009-10-7 10:10
LZ辛苦了！！！
作者: Aojng    时间: 2009-10-7 10:23
来来来...给咱也来段吧..虽然翻译的肯定没你们这些高手强..不过估计也勉强能看懂...
作者: maryruan    时间: 2009-10-7 10:42
谢谢LZ分享
标记一个，有机会的话，希望能翻译
作者: 桡王    时间: 2009-10-7 10:44
好长的英文啊~辛苦你们了 我会跟着的
作者: 3838438    时间: 2009-10-7 10:53
好~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~多~~英文啊...
作者: 崇囝囝    时间: 2009-10-7 11:00
感謝樓主和把書的內容打出來的朋友...
因為不想買這書啊...但又很想知道內容
英文不太好...只能頂一下替你們加油啦.
作者: MJ_love    时间: 2009-10-7 11:03
等待翻译高手诶！
作者: blackandy    时间: 2009-10-7 11:56
1# lovelymj


謝謝LOVEMJ分享和翻譯,感謝你的熱心勞動.
作者: 钰姑娘    时间: 2009-10-7 11:57
SB是否也加入了坏蛋组织？
作者: feier    时间: 2009-10-7 12:01
我想试一下，可是信心不足。
作者: sasasa    时间: 2009-10-7 14:10
謝謝分享和翻譯
作者: minnie130    时间: 2009-10-7 14:26
很想看这个访问的翻译。。终于等来了。
不过只看MJ自己说的话。其他忽略
谢谢LZ。。工作量好大。。。
我也在努力学习英语中~~~~
作者: xqshu    时间: 2009-10-7 14:46
虽然英语不是很好，但是愿意贡献自己一点力量帮忙翻译。
作者: 阿重    时间: 2009-10-7 14:50
MJ: 你看，为什么我们不能像树一样呢？他们在冬日里失去叶子，而在春天又变回美丽的模样。你知道么？它们是永生的。圣经说人类本应获得永生，可是因为所有这些罪孽，我们最后死去。

ooooooh sooooooo beautiful，MJ
作者: 阿重    时间: 2009-10-7 14:54
MJ:NO. I WOULD NEVER GIVE IT UP.THAT'S MY JOB. I WAS GIVEN THIS FOR A REASON. I REALLY BELIEVE IT AND I FEEL IT...

Gosh,MJ......
作者: DEARMICHAEL    时间: 2009-10-7 15:11
我也不想看到SB加入的对MJ不够恭敬的话,
这样很好,让想了解MJ的人能够回避那些误导人的话语.

谢谢LOVEMJ和那位愿意让我们分享的国外MJFAN!!!
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 15:55
标题: Women and Trust—Lisa Marie Presley and His Brothers’ Wives
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 08:35 编辑

SB: How do you feel about men who are not faithful to their wives?

MJ: I don't think it is good. But I understand it. I know that is a strange answer.

SB: You find women who fall in love with you all the time as this megastar, so you don’t judge men who are unfaithful, because sometimes you’ll ascribe it to women who make themselves available?

MJ: I don’t judge them because women can do some things that make guys very unhappy. I have seen it with my brothers. I have seen my brothers crying, in tears and pulling the grass out of the lawn with frustration because of their wives.
SB: Do you think a lot of their wives were more interested in their success than in them?

MJ: Absolutely. They were after their money. That's why I told myself I would never be married. I held out the longest. I stayed at home until I was 27, 28.

SB: So was part of the attraction to Lisa Marie that she had her own money and her own fame and you didn’t have to be anxious that she was interested in you for the wrong reasons?

MJ: Absolutely, and she didn’t take a penny. She didn’t want anything. She makes about a million dollars a year from Elvis memorabilia and selling all that stuff and she has her own thing. She is not here to take, you know.

(rabbi talks about how MJ always spoke very highly of Lisa except for the time he mentioned her getting pushy about Scientology)

SB: So that means there was almost like one girl in the whole world that you could marry because even a rich woman would want your name. You needed someone with money and a name. You were down to a Presley or a McCartney or something like that.

MJ: I know. Lisa was great. She was a sweet person. But it is hard to tie me down. I can’t stay in one place one time so that’s why I don’t know if I can really be completely married all the time.

SB: Did you want to be a father to her kids.

MJ: Yes.

SB: Do you still stay in touch with the children?

MJ: Yes, and with her.

SB: But marriage is too confining?

MJ: Yes. I don’t know whether I am disciplined enough because I am such a rolling stone. I have such a life when I am always on the move and women don’t like that. They want you to be settled in one place all the time but I have to move. I have been in the same city as where my house is and I’ll check into a hotel just to feel like I am going somewhere. My house is right there. I guess I am just moving, all the time, moving.

SB: You have gotten used to it.

MJ: I love being on the move, love it.

SB: It impresses me that everywhere you go you take your children with you. So you are on the move but it is almost like your household moves with you. Prince and Paris aren’t unsettled because of it because their source of security is always with them. But what about the families who don’t have the resources for that, and most don’t? They don’t have enough to be able to fly the kids around here and there. Businessmen who have to travel, they fly economy just to afford their own fare, and they can’t possibly bring their kids along every time. Should they not travel?

MJ: I feel bad for their children. I feel bad for their children. I always ask pilots and stewards how they do it? The children suffer. Absolutely. They suffer.

SB: You wouldn’t be doing this if Paris and Prince were going to suffer as a result. You are doing it because you have the resources to bring them where you are.

MJ: I couldn’t hurt them like that.

SB: Do you want to find them a Rose Fine kinds of figure, a bit of a motherhood figure?

MJ: That would be nice. That would be so sweet. If the person is completely sincere like Miss Fine was, who would read to them and them that there’s no difference and that we are all the same people. She used to always rub my face and I never used to understand why. She used to say I had beautiful hands. And I used to say, “Why, don’t all hands look alike?” But now I see what she means because now I do it do my kids. I rub their face like that because they are so sweet. [Laughs] I never understood why she did it to me. Then you grow up and you realize that it is an endearing thing to do, to say, “I love you.”

(rabbi comments about Grace being an excellent surrogate mom to the kids)
作者: BigBee    时间: 2009-10-7 15:56
本帖最后由 BigBee 于 2009-10-7 19:03 编辑

翻译三楼。
SB: 也许你可以去个不同的地方啊，一个神圣的地方，你的灵魂会离人们更近一些，它马上就变得自由的。想想看，Michael，我们都相信上帝与我们同在，即使我们无法触及或是感受他，但是对于我们深爱着人的灵魂，其实道理也是一样的。

[color=Red]MJ:我真想回到从前，当一个，当一个永远也长不大的小孩，就像彼得潘那样。我希望，我希望自己会坚信那是真的，我坚信我可以回到过去，我希望这是真的，我真的很想这样坚信着，Shmuely。

SB: 那是在下一个轮回么? 你要继续投胎成为一个小宝宝？

MJ:没错，即便我们，我的信仰[耶和华见证人]与之相违背，不允许有像”投胎“这样的事，当你死了之后，灵魂也跟着死去了。你知道么，就像这个沙发，是死的，但是总会有像投胎那样的约定的。

SB: 但是对于印度教教徒，他们深信人是轮回的。

MJ:我相信那个, 我欣赏埃及人和非洲人的做法，比如他们是怎样活化尸体的，我想去看看，我们都想去看看，那个人死去后所去的那个世界会到底是什么样，对吧？

SB: 我们希望当生命结束后，真正的了解那些谎言，还有天堂到底是什么样的。

MJ: 对啊， 在这件事上有着很多的概念。

SB: 你认为天堂里会有孩子们在玩耍么？

MJ:我的上帝啊，这就是我所祈祷的。

SB: 成年人也会在那里玩耍么?

MJ: 我认为这样，我会觉得他们很有童真，就像亚当和夏娃那样，那就是一个幸福的花园，一个完美的世外桃源。我祈祷着它会像你说的那样。

SB: 你害怕死亡么？

MJ: 害怕。

SB: 大家都一样啦。

MJ: 我总是跟别人说我要安葬在周围有孩子的地方，我想要他们陪伴着我，那样我会有种安全感。我需要他们的精神来庇护我，在我心底总会那样的场景，我不想看到自己单独的躺在那里，我要看到我和孩子们一起在那里，他们保护着我。

( rabi 继续说下一话题)
---------------

童年，寂寞，卡通片还有哥哥们。

SB: 有没有到一个年纪的时候，你意识到”哦，我的天啊，我错过了自己的童年？“

MJ: 没错， 一切都历历在目的铭记着，那种感觉和骑虎难下一样。你想啊，" 哦，我的天啊，我以前都做什么来着？”你得尽心尽力，不能半途而废。在我青少年时期之前的时候，这种感觉让我很受打击。我多么渴望去对面街的公园玩耍，因为那些小孩子们都在玩棒球、足球，但是我必须得录歌。我可以看到对面街道的公园，但是我必须去别的楼里工作，晚上为了录专辑工作到很晚。我坐在那看着那些孩子，泪水滑过我的脸庞，我只能说“我被困住了，我余生都要做这些事，我得依照合同做事。” 但是我多么想去那里玩耍，这种想法折磨着我，想和别人交朋友，打声招呼，我告诉你，我经常去那个街道寻找可以和我说话的人。

SB: 那时你多大啊？

MJ: 那是在Thriller 时期。

SB: 那时你是世界巨星了啊。。

MJ:我一直在找可以和自己说话的人，我好寂寞，我在楼上的屋子哭泣。我那时想，“我现在这样，应该上外面走走。”我在大街上走，我记得自己真的对大街上的人说“你愿意成为我的朋友吗？”

SB: 他们一定很吃惊。

MJ:他们都会像这样反应“哦，Michael Jackson!" 然后我就走了， "我的天啊，仅仅因为我是Michael Jackson，所以他们就像成为我的朋友么? 或者是因为我本身这个人？ 我只想和别人聊聊天。

SB: 你找到可以聊天的人了么？

MJ: 找到啦，我去了公园，有些小孩正在秋千上玩呢。”

SB: 所以这就是你愿意和孩子在一起的原因。只有他们把你当做一个平常的人来看待？

MJ: 是啊，的确是这样。

SB- 支支吾吾
MJ:我承受了很多，我知道那个时候我出问题了，但是我的确需要某个人，这可能就是我需要那些假模特的原因，我需要一个人听我说说话，我太害羞了，从来不和身边的人倾诉。那并不像一个老人对着植物说话，但我总是想让自己身边像有一个伴那样。我时常想，为什么要把这些假模特放在家里呢？他们就像真是的婴儿，孩子，还有人一样。这让我觉得我的屋子里都是人。

SB: 你为什么和真实的人说话时会感到害羞？是因为你仅仅知道如何表演，没有机会出去遛弯么？

MJ: 就是这样，的确没有机会出去走一走。

SB: 经常会感到孤独么？

MJ: 不总是像以前那样了，不了。

SB: 很明显，因为你有了孩子，那会让你产生很大的转变。但是我们的人生并不是只当父母这么简单，我们需要人与人之间的交流。

MJ: 什么样的交流呢？

SB:就是你可以向一个人倾述你的多愁善感，在这件事上，Prince 或者paris都无法理解的。

MJ: 恩。。。也就朋友还有那个人可以相信，伊丽莎白， 或者像麦考利， 邓波， 有着同样经历的人。

SB: 是因为他们都着同样经历，都是童星?

MJ: 从小不是童星的那些人说"好吧，我知道你的意思" 但是他们并不能理解你，他们只是试图着去同意你的看法。

SB: 你和同是童星的朋友们谈论发生在他们身上的那些个人的事情么？或者说你们根本就不必说，因为你们彼此之间都了解这些？

MJ: 你知道么，那就像心灵感应一般，我希望你能了解我和邓波。

SB: 你还和她联系么？

MJ: 我会给她打电话的，我想再给她打给电话，我总是感谢她，她总是说“为什么要感激我呢？”然后我说：“为你为我所做的一切而感到感激。”

SB: 你觉得自己会给她写首歌么？

MJ: 我真的想给她写首歌。

SB: 所以麦考利·卡尔金不必对你说“我曾经一日中天，这和我爸爸有着密切的关系。”你们甚至都不必像那样的谈话？

MJ: 哦，的确。这个小宝宝，有着足以珍贵的，可爱的灵魂，他就是麦考利·卡尔金。他想知道“我怎么可能对这种东西入迷？我从未要做一名演员。”他总是要脱离它。你必须要注意到当他背负他父亲的压力时，他所具有的那种能量。伙计，这孩子泪流满面，这就是发生在他身上的事。你知道么，但当我和他在一起的时候，我明白了（迈迈尖叫着）”麦考利·卡尔金来到了这“（楼主，gets in here在这语境的含义不太懂，不知翻译的是否正确）

( SB总是要问他的问题，所以我不会打了）

SB：你认为麦考利。卡尔金，你还有其他的一些人会更为正常，是因为你们懂得自己失去了什么，你们做一些事情来补偿？
MJ: 你知道, 总有一些人我可以理解，总有一些人我不能理解。波姬小丝开始的时候是个模特，所以并不是一整天，每一天都好过。她是当模特的，在演“Pretty Baby”之前（pretty baby是波姬小丝的成名作），她并不是一个电影明星。她在里面演了一个妓女，我认为她那时在12岁左右.她拍了很多照片啊。所以并不像我们整天从早到晚所做的那些事情，我觉得它会给人造成不同的影响。但同时呢，许多人认为美人胚子的脑子都空空如，但是她是很聪明的。

翻译完毕。
作者: ilmj1314    时间: 2009-10-7 16:02
工程浩大
雄起！！！！！！
作者: shell88    时间: 2009-10-7 16:09
本帖最后由 shell88 于 2009-10-7 16:12 编辑

感谢lovelyMJ的发起、整理和翻译，动作好快。我本来也想翻译一些的，但觉得自己的中文水平表达水平实在不够表现这些美丽的词句。我认领10-11楼关于家庭教师的那段吧，大家多指教。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 16:14
标题: Celebrity Relationships Gone Wrong-Madonna and Others
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-8 19:26 编辑

Celebrity Relationships Gone Wrong-Madonna and Others

SB: I asked Michael about his celebrity friends. Why could he connect with them more than non-celebrities?

MJ: Yeah, but I don't really have Hollywood friends. I have a few.

SB: Why don't you? Why don't you hang out with more celebrities?

MJ: Because I don't think they are all real people. They love the limelight and I don't have anything in common with them. They want to go clubbing and afterwards they want to sit around and drink hard liquor and do marijuana and do all kinds of crazy things that I wouldn't do. We have nothing in common. Remember the line I told you? Madonna laid the law down to me before we went out. "I am not going to Disneyland, okay? That's out.. I said, "But I didn't ask you to go to Disneyland." She said, "We are going to the restaurant and afterwards we are going to a strip bar." I said, "I am not going to a strip bar." Guys who cross-dress! Afterwards she wrote some mean things about me in the press and I wrote that she is a nasty witch, after I was so kind to her. I have told you that we were at the table eating and some little kids came up. "Oh my God, Michael Jackson and Madonna. Can we have your autograph?" She said, "Get out of here.Leave us alone." I said, "Don't ever talk to children like that." She said, "Shut up." I said, "You shut up." That's how we were. Then we went out again and we went to the Academy Awards and she is not a nice person. I have to say it. She is not a nice person.

SB: Did people around you feel that it was important to be seen with her?

MJ: They knew nothing about it. This was totally between her and me.

SB: So you gave it a chance and it didn't work?

MJ: Yeah, I gave it a chance like I try and give everything a chance.

SB: You basically saw that your values do not match those of most Hollywood people.

MJ: No, they do lots of crazy things that I am not into and at the time I was with Madonna she was into these books, a whole library of books of women who were tied to walls. She said, "I love spanky books." (lol)
Why do I want to see that?

SB: I think a lot of it is the image. She once said something to the effect that she would much rather read a good book than have sex. I think the other vulgar stuff is part of the outrageous image she tries to cultivate.

MJ: She's lying [about preferring to read a book]. I can't judge. I don't know if she has changed or is she [is[ trying to claim she has changed.

SB: Why does she say mean things?

( Rabbi talks about how Madonna is a devotee of Kabbala and that she is a loving and devoted mother.)

MJ: I think she likes shock value and she knows hot to push buttons on people. I think she was sincerely in love with me and I was not in love with her. She did a lot of crazy things and that's how that went. I knew we had nothing in common. But I am pretty sure that having a baby has to change you. I don't know how much she has changed. I;m sure she is a better person than before.

SB: She has two children now.

MJ: Yeah, I know. How would you like getting a phone call and she is telling you that she is putting her fingers between her legs. I would say, "Oh Madonna, please." She said, "What I want you to do when I hang up the phone is to rub yourself and think of me." (rofl) That's the kind of stuff she says. She does. When I see her she says, " This is the finger I used last night." Wild, out of control.

SB: But you were raised that all things romantic should have a certain modesty...the values you were raised with are very similar to core Jewish values. That kind of thing that Madonna was saying is only shocking at first. Then it quickly becomes humdrum and boring. That's why she has to push the envelope and become more and more shocking just to sustain our interest in her. When people have their breasts out the whole time then you stop looking. Do you see that as vulgar?

MJ: What she does? Absolutely. She is not sexy at all. I think sexy comes from the heart in the way you present yourself.

SB: Have you ever found women who are a bit more modest to be more attractive for that reason?

MJ: Yeah. I don't like the women who are always saying, "My nails need to be done. I have to do my toes. I need a manicure." I hate all that. I like it when girls are little bit more tomboyish. If they wrestle, climb a tree...I love that. It is sexier to me. I like class, though. Class is everything.

SB: If a woman walks around with her cleavage showing...

MJ: Frank loves it.

SB-( Michael gestures at Frank Cascio, who was sitting right next to us. We all laughed).

SB: A man might want to have sex with a woman like that. But it doesn't mean he would want to fall in love with a woman like that.

MJ: Of course you want to look. I am in love with innocence and I tell Frank that.

       
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SB: Have you met women who have that innocence or by and large would you say that this generation is cultivating women who are not innocent, who are not encouraged to preserve their innocence?

MJ: I wish they were.

SB: Celebrities are targets for people who marry them for the wrong reasons, their fortune and their name. But don't you know when someone is interested in you for the wrong reason?

MJ: You don't know.

SB: The ancient rabbis said that worlds that emanate from the heart penetrate the heart. That sincerity cannot be faked. You can't tell when someone is faking it and is full of it?

MJ: It is hard because the women today can do a good job of faking it. I mean a real good job. They are smooth. Look in the Bible. Women have taken the most powerful men down to nothing because of what is between their legs. Samson, nobody could cut his hair, and he had sex with Delilah.

SB: Monica Lewinsky and Clinton... what everyone overlooks is that she went after him, which doesn't excuse Clinton, but she's not off the hook either.

MJ: Didn't I say that the other day? One woman did so much pain to this president. How much can a woman do to try and hurt a president? Look what she caused, and that's why I don't like Barbara Walters because she instigated a lot of it. She made it all on television. She tried to come here today and I canceled it.

( lol they sound like two old ladies gossiping hahaha, anyway skipping half a page of rabbi's babbling)

MJ: I don't like clubs now, I did all that when I was eleven, eight and going back-nine, eight, seven, six. Fights break out, people throwing up, yelling, screaming, the police sirens. Our father never let us become a part of it other than to perform and leave. But sometimes in having to do that you would get caught up in some of the craziness. I saw it all. The lady who came on right before, when The Jackson's were little, " And now next, The Little Jackson 5", was the lady who took off all her clothes. Threw her panties into the audience and the men would grab them and sniff them. I saw all this. Her name was Rose Marie and she put these things on her breasts and moved them around and she showed everything. So when I became sixteen, seventeen and guys would say, "Let's go clubbing," I would go, "Are you crazy?" And the guys would be like, "No, are you crazy? We can get girls, we can get liquor." But I had done that. I did that when I was a baby. Now I want to be a part of the world and the life I didn't have. Take me to Disneyland, take me to where the magic is.


Someone else volunteered to type as well I will just wait for a confirmation from them and if I don't get it till tomorrow I will continue with the next chapter.
作者: jessicayang    时间: 2009-10-7 16:20
哈…………我来试试七楼……是第一次翻译，水平有限，不过我会尽力的……
如此喜欢MJ总应该为他做些什么……
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 16:21
标题: Loneliness, Wanting Children, and Lisa Marie Presley's Second Thouhgts(1)
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-9 07:26 编辑

SB: Let me ask you about loneliness. So wherever you travel, you, thank God, have an entourage. People you've been with for a long time, Frank and Skip [Michael's bodyguard at the time, a very pleasant and decent man from New Orleans]. But it's not like having a wife in your life or something. Do you get lonely? Or is there so much going on in your life that is doesn't really happen?

MJ: Like lonely for like a wife? For like a mate? Like that?

SB: Yeah.

MJ: I've been through two bad divorces and I just got out of the second one. Even when married to those women that I was married to, I'd go to bed hurting. I was hurting. I was crying last night as I went to sleep and I didn't sleep good last night. And I cry, Shmuely, because I feel this...and I'm not trying, I'm telling you the honest truth and if you don't believe me you can ask Frank. Frank knew how I was hurting. I just was feeling all the pain of the children who suffer and I was hurting so much. That's why I was trying to reach any child I knew who had pain, from [Michael mentions a little girls who was battling cancer and whose family he met at out home] to Gavin [Michael's later accuser]. I was trying to like, calling, dialing and I woke up the first thing, the first person I called was [the little girl's] house and she had gone already. It hurts me. But I think that's where my real love comes from, Shmuely. If I can help in that way I'm fine and I don't need the other [romantic love]. You know if I meet some girl somewhere and I think she;s beautiful, which I see a lot of them, that's great. I mean, I'll go on a date or something. Nothing wrong with that. Jennifer Lopez looked awfully good the other day, she did. I was shocked 'cause I never thought...She looked good. [Michael laughs as he says this].

SB: But have you given up on women understanding you? You tend to think that children will understand you a lot better?

MJ: I'm not easy to live with in that way for a wife. I;m not easy and I know I'm not easy. Because I give all my time to someone else. I give it to children, I give it to somebody sick somewhere, to the music. And women want to be the center. And I remember Lisa Marie would always say to me, "I'm not a piece of furniture, I'm not a piece of furniture. You can't just...." I say, "I don't want you to be a piece of furniture," and, you know, there'd be some sick little girls calling on the phone and she'd get mad and hang up on them. And, you know, I feel that's my, that's my mission, Shmuely. I have to do it.

SB: What if you found that woman who was that soft, who was incredibly soft?

MJ: Like Mother Teresa or Lady Diana or....that would be great. It would be perfect.

SB: Would that be better than having to do it on your own?

MJ: Absolutely, and Lisa was great with going to the hospitals with me, and she was so sweet about that. They would tie the babies to the bed or chain the children down. We'd go unchain...we'd go free all these babies. I hated that and she, she discovered a lot of that injustice with me. Countries like Romania and Prague, Czechoslovakia and all that, Russia. You should see what they do to the children in those...you'd be shocked. They chain them to the wall like they're animals and they're naked and they slept in their tinkle and their feces too. It's just so sad, it made me sick. So we brought clothes and toys and just love and love. I love them and I went back every day visiting them, hugging them, wanting to take each and every one of them to Neverland.

SB: When you started becoming this childhood star, did you realize that your childhood was slowly sleeping away? You won a contest at age eight. In 1964, you were chosen as lead singer for the family band. Did that make you feel excited or where you worried? Did you think to yourself, "Where is all this headed? What's it going to lead to?"

MJ: I didn't think about it. I didn't think about the future. I just took each day as it came. I knew I wanted to be a star. I wanted to do things and make people happy.

SB: Did you know what the cost is going to be in terms of childhood?

MJ: No way. No way.

SB-The phone rings. Michael talks to the president of Sony Records, Tommy Mottola, who has invited Michael to his wedding. Michael says he wants to sit musicians with him so he can throw peanuts at Tommy. I think to myself, "Michael's playfulness never ends."

MJ on the phone: Tell the guys to let the music talk to them and not to, like, jump on right away. Listen to it a couple of times and let the melody create itself. That's the thing, let the the music speak to them. Alright? Goodbye.

SB: Is that your dream that one day, like part of the messianic future, as far as you're concerned, that all these kids will come and live in Neverland and live happily ever after?

MJ: Yes.

SB: And if you had the resources truly you would just...

MJ: I would do it, Shmuely. I would do it. I would love it.

SB: Lisa Marie was good about at least visiting. So she had no problem going and doing some of the compassionate things of giving these children love and making them feel special?

MJ: She had no problem doing that but her and I had several big arguments 'cause she's very territorial with her children. Her children were [ her major concern]....and I said, "No, all children are our children," and she never liked that coming from me. She was very angry about that. Plus, she had a fight with me one time when two little boys in London killed this other kid and I was going to visit them 'cause the queen gave them adult sentencing of life. These wee like eleven-and ten-year-old boys and I was going to go to the prison and visit them. She said, "You idiot. You're just rewarding them for what they did." I said, "How dare you say that." I said, " I bet if you trace their life you can find they didn't have parents around, they didn't have any love, nobody there to hold them look in their eyes and say, "I love you." They deserve that, even though they're going to get life, I just want to say I love you and hold them." She said, "Well, you're wrong." I said, "No, you're wrong." Then the information came out that they came from broken families, were never watched as little kids, attended to. Their pacifier was those Chucky movies with the stabbings and the killings. And that's how they became conditioned to that.

SB: Did she admit then that you had a point?

MJ: Nope, she thinks I'm rewarding bad kids.

SB: Did she want you to be a father to her children?

MJ: Well that was once asked of her. She was asked that question on TV and she said, " No, they have a father. Their father is Keogh," that other guy. But I was really good to her children. Every day I'd bring them home something and they;d be waiting by the window for me and hug me. I love them. I miss them so much.

SB: Did she get used to living in Neverland or was it too isolated?

MJ: Lisa didn't live at Neverland. We visited Neverland the way...I lived at her house in the city and every once in a while we visited Neverland. It'd be like out big fun weekend.

SB: And her children liked it?

MJ: Are you kidding me? They were like in heaven.

SB: And you were happy to show it to them?

MJ: Mm hmm.

SB: Did it have more meaning to you suddenly when you had a family you could show it to?
作者: dream222    时间: 2009-10-7 16:30
谢谢!!!!!!!!!真的非常感谢！！！！！！！！
作者: ○range｀    时间: 2009-10-7 16:34
谢谢LZ，谢谢翻译。
作者: emily102110    时间: 2009-10-7 16:47
感謝LZ,以及其他幫忙翻譯的同學~~
作者: lijuan3301    时间: 2009-10-7 16:52
我乖大家的翻译,谢谢
作者: lanju7811    时间: 2009-10-7 17:19
谢谢LZ，继续期待！！
作者: 熊顿    时间: 2009-10-7 17:24
休假回来啦~！
我翻译水平有限，但是超想为MJ做点什么。。。勉强认领25楼那段吧。。。。
Part 3- Fame in adulthood
作者: 菜虫卿    时间: 2009-10-7 17:34
感谢你们的翻译，你们太棒了
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 17:38
标题: Loneliness, Wanting Children, and Lisa Marie Presley's Second Thouhgts(2)
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-9 07:27 编辑

MJ: Yes, yes. It's just a place to make families, to bring them together, to bring people together through love and playful spirit and nature. It makes families closer, Neverland. It's healing.

SB: Since you idolize the family was it very hard for you when you had to go through that divorce then?

MJ: Which one?

SB: With Lisa.

MJ: Was it hard for me?

SB: Did you see the writing on the wall? That you were different? Meaning my parents divorced when I was eight. So I really, really romanticized marriage.

MJ: Really?

SB: Oh phenomenally. It's what all my books are about, marriage. Because I couldn't deal with...

MJ: So you really believe in marriage and all that? You love marriage?

SB: It's what I believe most in the world. I believe in family, I really do.

MJ: I do too, Shmuely.

SB- tells his story about his wife and how thousands of fans can't replace one true fan- one personal who is the most important fan of all- and that all you need in life is that one real fan and how important it is to have that.

MJ: That's right.

SB- talks again talks about one sincere fan who loves you for who you are not what you do etc;

MJ: It's beautiful, Shmuely. Thank you.

SB: I never knew I;d meet you back then, but I've been talking about this. Your name has come up in every lecture around the world on the subject. In other words, my whole point was, marriage is where you make one person feel like they're a superstar like Michael Jackson.

MJ: That's beautiful.

SB: But I am a big believer in marriage. So when your relationship with Lisa started to fall apart was it very hard? Your idealism about the family, everything you believed in building the intimate family you always wanted, especially because you knew...

MJ: I wanted children and she didn't.

SB: She felt she had her kids.

MJ: Yeah, and she promised me that before we married, that would be the first thing we'd do was to have children. So I was brokenhearted and I walked around all the time holding these little baby dolls and I'd be crying, that;s how badly I wanted them. So I was determined to have children. It disappointed me that she wouldn't keep her promise to me, you know? After we got divorced she would hang out with my mother all the time. I have all these letters saying, "I'll give you nine children. I'll do whatever you want," and of course the press don't know all these stories and she just tried for months and months and I just became too hard-hearted at that point. I closed my mind on the whole situation.

SB: So she thought maybe you could get back together?

MJ: Uh huh.

SB: But children were a major, major issue?

MJ: Of course.

SB: She had the kids and that was it.

MJ: She had hers and I wanted us to feel like we all were one big family and have more. I just....my dream is to have nine or ten children, that's what I want.

SB: You're still very young, do you think it will happen?

MJ: Yeah.

SB: But it means getting married again.

MJ: Yeah.

SB: Are you happy to do that?

MJ: Uh huh...or adopt.

SB: Is it possible Michael, that you're attracting the wrong kind of girl because of your celebrity?

MJ: It's hard. That's why it's hard. it's hard for me. It is hard. It's not easy for celebrities to be married.

SB: Do you think that you could only really marry celebrities so that they don't need you as much?

MJ: That helps, in my opinion. And they understand what you go through. They've been there.

SB: They help you for the right reasons, then?

MJ: Yeah, they're not after, you know? What you've made [ the money] or, you know? [singing] "That's what you are...." [ he won a Grammy for that].

SB: Right,right.
作者: shell88    时间: 2009-10-7 18:03
本帖最后由 shell88 于 2009-10-7 18:48 编辑

这段是关于MJ的家庭教师，和一些关于老年人、慈善的看法。
他的童年虽然悲惨，却也得到了无条件的爱。那些对他好的人，他都终生铭记。

ROSE FINE: MICHAEL的童年教师
----------------------------

Rabi和Mike谈论空中旅行.

MJ:它给我留下了严重的伤痕.

SB: 什么?

MJ:湍流，身处其中你以为活不了了。

SB: 还记得你跟我说过的犹太教师的故事吗？

MJ:Rose Fine?

SB: 你有一次在电话里说过，她常常对你说，那一次飞机上人人都将要死去了，那时有一个修女在飞机上。

MJ: 她说：“我们很好，我们坐在飞机上，我们如此有信念。我查过了，飞机上没有修女。”我总是相信那些。

SB: 你还在寻找修女吗？

MJ:我想! 我从未在飞机上见过修女. 她 [Rose Fine] 帮了我许多，她握住我的手，拥抱我. 演出结束后我回到房间，我们读书，喝热牛奶，我非常需要这些。她总对我说：“门是开着的。”她的门总是开着的。

SB: 一个人是否可能爱非亲生孩子就象爱自己的孩子。你爱孩子们就象爱Prince和Paris那样吗?

MJ:绝对可以。

SB: 我注意到一件令人印象深刻的事，当我说“Prince和Paris很美丽”，你总说“不。所有孩子都很美丽”。你不让我只是称赞Prince和Paris。

MJ:对我来说是这样的。我在所有孩子身上看到了美....对我来说他们都是美丽的. 他们如此美丽，我爱他们所有人 - 平等地。我常和不同意我的人们争论。他们说你应该爱自己的孩子更多些.

SB: Rose Fine, 虽然她不是你的亲生母亲，但给了你许多母爱?

MJ: 我非常需要那些. 我小时候很少和母亲在一起，我有一个特别好的母亲，我把她看作天使，但我经常离家，总在不停巡演，走遍了美国、国外、俱乐部，总是离家。（Rose Fine）帮助了我许多. 我们（Janet和我）照顾她直至她去世。她最近刚去世。

SB: 你是否认为我们这个项目的背景文字中应该提到她？

MJ:是的，一定要这样，她需要被铭记。

SB: 她多大年纪了?

MJ:她从来不告诉我她的年龄。我想她有九十多岁了。她过去常说“我退休后就会告诉你我的年龄。”但当她退休时还是没有告诉我。她从Jackson 5第一次职业巡演时直至我18岁和我们在一起，第一次巡演是在我们有大的突破-第一首热门单曲之后。她总有权力，比如说如果演唱会开始太晚，她有权力中止演出，因为教育部门会说“孩子不能超过合法时间”。她总让（演出）继续。她不会伤害听众。

SB: 她在白天教学吗?

MJ:啊哈。

SB: 常规的科目? 数学?英文?她一起教你们5个?

MJ:是的, 一起, 3个小时。她教Janet, 所有人。

SB: 跟我多说些她的事情。.

MJ: 好的，Rose今年去世了。Janet和我支付了她的护理和医院治疗费用。如果她的电视机坏了，电费或家里的修理费用我们都付账。现在她的丈夫病了，我也在照顾他。我们感觉她就象我们的母亲，照顾母亲是应该的。

SB: 你真的那样感觉?

MJ:绝对的。她不仅仅是一个教师。她去世时我在很远的地方，这令我很生自己的气，我不能赶去。我当时在瑞士，Evvy（Michael的秘书）在电话里告诉我她去世了，我说“什么？我在瑞士，我无法......"我生自己的气，但我作了能作的。

令人伤心的是，我去看她，说“Fine夫人，我是Michael”，她说“不要说你是Michael，你不是Michael”。她不认得我了。变老并不总是美的。这很伤感。

SB: 一个孩子会如何应对这些事呢? （...跳过...）你认为变老是一种诅咒吗？

MJ: 在某种意义上，当身体开始生病时。但当老人重返童真，我曾见到过，他们变得非常好玩和象孩子似的。我与老人们有很好的关系因为他们有孩子般的特质。当我去医院时，我总是想法偷溜进另一个房间去和老年人说话。我两天前去医院时还这么做来着, 他们很甜蜜，他们欢迎你就象孩子一般。他们说“进来”然后我们谈话。他们单纯而又甜蜜。

老年人和孩子非常相像。他们无忧无虑，自由玩耍，单纯而又甜蜜。这是一种心灵的感觉。我造访老人院不象孤儿院那么多。许多人有老年痴呆症，不认得人。但我与老年人有非常好的关系。我喜欢和老年人交谈，他们可以告诉你他们小时候的故事以及世界在那时是什么样子，我喜欢这些。很久以前在纽约有一个老犹太人告诉我“永远为你的天才而感激，永远为不幸的人们付出，帮助其他人”。 ( 这位老人告诉Mike一个故事,小的时候父亲经常给他一些衣服和面包,让他放在别人的门前,敲门后就跑开,这样别人就不知道是谁做的)

SB: 你曾尝试作匿名慈善行为吗?

MJ: 是的,不会张扬。他 [Michael上面提到的人] 说慈善是发自心底而不是为了赞誉, 他跑开后人们就不知道谁留下了那些东西,仿佛是上帝留在那的,不是吗? 这真是太美好了,我从未忘记这个故事。我当时大约11岁,听到这个故事。他是老年人,非常甜蜜,一个犹太人,我记得。

Michael和SB discuss讨论犹太宗教,以及Rose是犹太人,等待;
Michael说 : 她教给我书本和阅读的精彩世界. 如果没有她,我就不是今天的我。我对她很感激,这就是为什么我将新专辑献给她。

SB: 你是否认为她把你看作儿子?

MJ:她称我为她的儿子。每次上飞机时你都能看到7个黑人小孩子和一个黑人父亲,都是非洲式蓬蓬头，然后一位白人犹太老妇人在后面,他们拦住她,问"你是谁?",她就会说"我是他们的母亲",她每次都那么说,然后他们就放行了。甜蜜的故事。她很特别，我需要她。

SB: 她给了你无条件的爱吗?

MJ:是的.

SB: 你认为在两个没有血缘关系的人之间存在无条件的爱吗?

MJ:哦,天啊,当然了。我在她身上学到了这一点,我曾见过,也曾经历过。那跟血缘或种族或教义或肤色无关.爱就是爱,它打破所有界限,你能看到它。我在孩子的眼睛中看到它，当我看着孩子,我看到无助的小狗。他们真甜美。怎么有人能伤害他们?他们那样美妙。

SB: 她今年去世了,这意味着你必须应对悲伤.一个孩子如何应对悲伤?一个孩子生活在天堂里,那是我们所试图描绘的完美世界。成人大多在战争,嫉妒和世故中腐蚀了,然后死亡突然降临,即使孩子也必须面对死亡。你如何面对死亡?一个孩子如何面对死亡?


MJ: 是的.我不得不面对死亡,这很难.
作者: DEARMICHAEL    时间: 2009-10-7 18:37
谢谢你们!
又进来看了刚译的两段.
作者: seeyou    时间: 2009-10-7 18:58
谢谢楼主和参与翻译的诸位
作者: jessicayang    时间: 2009-10-7 19:20
七楼翻译   关于父亲

SB:你现在还是对你父亲心存不满么？

MJ:我以前是这样的，我以前对他的行为感到非常生气。我会回到自己的房间然后因为愤怒而大叫，因为我真的不明白一个人怎么会如此的残酷卑劣。有时候在夜里十二点左右我正在床上睡觉。我已经唱了一整天，也录了一整天的歌，不能玩也没有任何乐趣。这时候他会说：“打开门！”他通常回来的很晚。门是锁上的。“我给你5秒钟的时候打开门，要不然我就一脚踢开！”他说。然后他就开始拿脚踢门，闯进来。“你为什么不签合同？”他问。“我不知道”，我说。“好吧，你最好把它签了，要不然你会有麻烦。”我想，“天哪，这是为什么？父爱都哪去了？这就是我的父亲么？”。我说：“难道我非得这么做么？”这时候他会把你狠狠地打你。他很强壮。

SB: 你那时候开始觉得你对他来说就像一个摇钱树？
MJ:是，绝对是的。

SB: 就像Macaulay Culkin 说的那样？所以你已经习惯了？
MJ:是的。有一天，我挺烦再说一遍的，有一天他这么说，当然我还是愿上帝保佑我的父亲，毕竟他也做了很多很好的事而且他也很有才华，可以说是天才。但是有一天他说了这么一句：“如果你们这些家伙哪一天不唱歌了，我会立马把你们甩掉不管。”这句话深深地伤害了我。你会想也许他会想到，“这些孩子也有他们的情感和想法。”难道他就不会想到他说这些会伤到我们么？如果我对Prince和Paris说了这样的话那绝对很伤感情。你也不会对你的孩子说这样的话，这句话我永远也忘不了。这也影响了而后至今我和父亲的关系。

SB: 也就是说如果有一天你不表演了，他就不会再爱你们了？
MJ: 他会立即扔下我们。他就是这么说的。

SB: 你母亲会替他解释么？会说“别听他的，他不是这个意思”这种话么？
MJ:在父亲发火，像打我们的时候，开始她一般在不显眼的地方，但是后来她会说这样的话。（用女声）“Joe,不，别这样，你会杀了他们的！不！Joe,够了！”然后他开始摔家具，那简直糟透了。我一直都在说如果我有了孩子我绝对不会那样做，我绝对不会打他们。人们总是会说受虐待的人也会这样虐待别人，但这不对，绝对不正确，我完全不属于这样的人。可能我做的最严厉的事就是让我的孩子站到角落里反省，但那已经够严厉了。

SB: 我认为你是对的。我很讨厌人们说什么受虐者同样会施虐这样的话，这好像意味着你就一定是个不好的人。
MJ:这种说法不对。我总是会在心里暗暗发誓我决不会这么做，永远不会。如果在电影里或者是在商店里，我听到有人和自己的孩子争吵，我会很痛心。因为那就反映了我小时候是怎样被对待的。遇到那样的情况，我会伤心哭泣，我禁不起这些，那些真的令我很痛心。
MJ: 我至今都挺怕我的父亲。上帝知道我说的都是实话，每次他一出现我就吓得发晕。说实话我真的曾经晕倒过。他一出现我就想吐，因为他一进房间那种紧张感就被他带进来了，然后我的胃就开始疼因为我知道我有麻烦了。他现在改变了很多。年龄逐渐增大，还有那些孙子孙女都使他改变了很多，而且他也想做一个更合格的父亲。但是这对于我来说，就像一艘船已经走过了他的航线不能改变一样，很难接受一个跟以前大不一样的父亲即便他有了改变。我真是希望他能早点意识到这一点。

SB: 那为什么你至今都怕他？
MJ: 因为伤疤依旧在那，旧时的伤痕。

SB: 所以你还是把他作为以前那样的父亲来看待。把他当做一个全新的人来看对你来说很难么？
MJ 我不能把他当做一个全新的人来看待。在他面前，我就像个吓坏了的孩子。有一天他对我说：“为什么你那麽怕我？”我没法回答他。我很想说：“你知道你曾做过什么么？”（声音中断）“你知道你曾对我做过什么么？”

SB: 你叫他“爸爸”还是Joseph?
MJ: 在我们的成长过程中我们不允许叫他爸爸。他说：“别叫我爸爸，我是Joseph."那就是他告诉我们的。但现在他希望我们叫他爸爸。他以前总是坚持说：”别叫我爸爸，我是Joseph."我特别喜欢Prince和Paris叫我"Daddy",或者有时候你听到有些意大利小孩叫“Papa",或是犹太孩子叫”Poppy",那些都令人感到甜蜜。你怎么可能不会为此而感到骄傲呢？那都是你的子女啊。

SB:从什么时候开始他不让你们叫他爸爸？
MJ:从很小的时候一直到Off the wall和Thriller时期。

SB: 他觉得那样显得他很专业么？
MJ: 不是。他觉得他是一个年轻男人。作为父亲他似乎过于冷酷了。他是Joseph.我觉得他肯定不喜欢我这样说……

SB:我曾经在哪看到过你母亲以前曾想过离婚，并且正式提出过。
MJ:我不知道她是否正式提出过，可能有。不，不，她没有正式提出过。但曾经有很多次，因为他和其他女人还有他的粗暴，母亲想过离婚。但是在教义里只有在对方与其他人通奸的情况下她才可以提出离婚。虽然他也有过那样的情况而且母亲也知道，但是她是那样一个圣人以至于她不愿意与他分开。她知道他在外面做的事，与别的女人纠缠不清，但是她是那样善良能够忍受他回家后还可以跟她睡在一张床上。我从来没有遇到过像母亲那样的人，他就像Mother Teresa.很少会有人像她一样。

SB:所以她是一个长期忍受着痛苦，有着圣人一般善良的女人。你有没有认为她这样似乎忍受的太久了？就是说她不应该再继续忍受下去……
MJ: 我们以前也劝过她与父亲离婚。我们会说：”妈妈，跟他离婚吧。“她总会说：”让我一个人静一静！“我们会继续说：”赶快摆脱他吧！“甚至在我们小时候我们冲她吼道要她离婚。但是多年来我们总会听到汽车接近的声音，他总是开着一辆奔驰车而且开得很慢。”Joseph快到家啦，Joseph快到家啦，快点走！“每个人都会跑向自己的房间然后撞上门。

SB: 你们曾经那么怕他？
MJ: 是啊。我总在说：”我希望当我回到家穿过门厅时，我的孩子们会扑过来抱着我叫爸爸。当然现在就是这样，我想要的跟我们以前完全相反，我可不想孩子们见我就跑开。
作者: shell88    时间: 2009-10-7 19:21
欲罢不能，继续翻译第9楼：
A PAINFUL BLESSING: ALL I WANTED WAS TO BE LOVED
作者: BigBee    时间: 2009-10-7 19:24
俺翻译八楼。。。吼吼
作者: yanmilin    时间: 2009-10-7 19:28
非常感谢楼主和翻译以及海外迈迷。
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 19:34
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-9 07:39 编辑

love the world, love our children
作者: 熊顿    时间: 2009-10-7 19:38
亲爱的 错了 我定的翻译是21楼，我打错了。。。
Part 3- Fame in adulthood
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 19:45
标题: Looking for True Friendship
本帖最后由 lovelymj 于 2009-10-9 07:30 编辑

SB: Love and fear, as I said, are antithetical. They are like fire and water. The more of the former, the less of the latter. The more valuable you feel, the less you fear your destruction. The more love you have in your life, the less room there is for fear.

MJ: That's right. I used to walk the street asking for people to be my friend. It's true, in Encino, right down there. People would look at me and go, "Michael Jackson!" I just wanted to talk to somebody. I was up there alone in the house and my mother and father were downstairs watching television. And I was up in my old room and all my brothers and stuff had moved out because they were married and stuff, and I was up there all alone and you can't go anywhere. You feel like a prisoner and you feel like you are going to die. And that's it. I am walking and I would just go walking down the street and traffic would get backed up and people would come up and talk, and they would go, "What are you doing?" I'd go, "I am walking." They'd go, "Why are you walking? Where are all the guards?" I said, "I don't feel like all that. I just want to walk and I am looking for someone to talk to me." So they would talk to me. I've done that many times. I'd ask people to be my friend and they'd say, "Sure." It is true. I'd go to the parks. Then I realized that that could be dangerous too, but I was hurting that much.

SB:Where they intimidated when you asked them to be your friend? Did they say, "I can't be your friend....you are Michael Jackson?"

MJ: I would even ask for their phone numbers. Then I realized it is hard to find a friend because they are befriending you as the thing that they see. Are they real friend? So it became difficult.

SB: But you have found some real friends like Elizabeth Taylor.

MJ: Yes.
作者: MJ8.29    时间: 2009-10-7 19:51
谢谢所有辛苦翻译的亲们！！
作者: think2    时间: 2009-10-7 19:52
本帖最后由 think2 于 2009-10-7 20:04 编辑

我认领翻译12 和13 楼   Part 2 - Jehovah’s Witnesses Years and Religion
完成日期：10月8日晚上23点前

谢谢！
作者: fymissyoumj    时间: 2009-10-7 20:01
那跟血缘、种族、教义、肤色都无关.爱就是爱,它打破所有界限
谢谢分享！
作者: shell88    时间: 2009-10-7 20:08
A PAINFUL BLESSING: ALL I WANTED WAS TO BE LOVED
痛苦的祝福：我所想要的就是被爱
-----------------------------
SB: 上帝总是回应了你的祈祷吗?

MJ:通常。绝对是的。这就是为什么我相信他。

SB: 那么你感到在生命中困难的事情里，他和你在一起吗？

MJ:我所请求的无一没有得到。这并非是唯物的。我将要说一些以前从没说过的事，那就是真相。我没有理由向你撒谎，上帝知道我在说真话。我想我所有的成功和名声，我想得到这些，我想得到这些因为我希望被爱。就是这样，这就是真相。我希望人们爱我，真正地爱我，因为我从未真正感觉被爱。我说我知道我有才能，如果我增进我的技艺，也许人们能更爱我。我只是想要被爱因为我想被爱是很重要的，告诉人们你爱他们，看着他们的眼睛说出来。.

(省略：SB胡说八道)

SB: 但另一方面，如果你童年时得到了大量的爱，你可能不会这样努力工作以取得成功。

MJ:是的，这就是为何我并不想改变任何事，因为它以不同的方式解决了。

SB: 你可以把负面的东西转变成祝福?

MJ:是的。

SB: 我记得Paul McCartney说过的话, 当你已成为巨星而他被问及你时。有人说"Michael Jackson是否会象其它摇滚明星那样，死于30岁，死于毒品？Paul说, "不，Michael不会, 他的整个特质是不同的，他不咒骂，他不喝酒。”你是否知道你自己有一种特质，如果你保持这样，不会使你被名声和成功毁灭？

(省略：SB胡说八道)

MJ:是的。我总是坚决的。我对想作的事总有愿景和目标。什么也不能阻挡我达到它。我很专注，我知道自己想要什么，想达到什么，我不会被枝节分神。即使有时我遇到挫折，我继续比拼耐力以达到目标。我保持自己在正轨上。我专心专意。

SB: ( 关于童年的长问题-总结) 你会以不同的方式去做吗?

MJ:不，由于我过去的经历我对其它孩子（的感受）这样敏感。我很高兴（我有这样的能力）。
作者: 眼泪笑了    时间: 2009-10-7 20:32
谢谢大家辛苦的翻译，顶顶顶～～～
作者: Ge.Ga.Zi    时间: 2009-10-7 20:33
哇哈.....很感谢海外迈迷~也很感谢咱们MJJCN的英语高手的亲们...
谢谢你们了~都怪我英语不好啊...爱莫能助啊-...
再一次 谢谢你们 加油哈
作者: 浪漫一生    时间: 2009-10-7 20:36
谢谢分享！！！大家辛苦了！！！
作者: BigBee    时间: 2009-10-7 20:43
本帖最后由 BigBee 于 2009-10-7 20:54 编辑

对珍妮的保护
-----------------
SB: 现在让咱们分享一件事，你说过父亲会你上台表演的时候羞辱你，他会把你弄哭，然后把你推到舞台上，那里的所有女孩都很喜欢你。。这么做是为了什么?是为了在你身上来显示他的威力？

MJ: 恩。不是的，在舞台上他不会那么做，就表演结束后，屋子里会围满了女孩子。他喜欢把这些小姑娘带到屋子里。演出结束后我们会吃点东西，无论怎样啊，房间里会充斥着女孩子们咯咯的笑声。他们只是很喜欢我们，说“哦，偶的神啊。”然后晃动着。如果我碰巧谈论到我父亲不喜欢的话题，他会用他的眼神，他会用他的眼神吓死你。他会用所有力气放狠的抽我巴掌，然后他会把我推到一个大的屋子里，那些女孩子都在那里，眼泪从我的脸颊滑落，可是你该些做些什么，你知道么？

SB: 你那时多大了呀?（Prince 在背景里说“我们才三岁呀" 笑声。。。] (嘎嘎，这真有趣）

MJ:啊，不超过11，12岁的样子，差不过那样。

SB:所以这是你人生第一次感到羞辱？真正意义上的羞辱？

MJ:不，还有其他的一些。他的做法很粗暴，很残忍，很残忍。。我都不知道她为什么这么做。他很粗暴，他往死的打人，你知道么，他会先让你脱掉衣服，在你身上浇上油， 整个过程就是种仪式。当他拿电熨斗的绳抽你的时候，他就会往你身上浇油。你知道么，这生不如死，鞭子可以抽到你的脸，你的后背，身体的各个部位，我总记得我妈妈喊道”住手，乔，你这么做会杀了他。你会杀了他，快住手。”然后我就放弃了，我啥都做不了，因此我很憎恨他，我们都很恨她。我们跟彼此说到，我们都无法将之释怀。我和珍妮经常说：“珍妮啊，闭上你的眼睛。”她会闭上眼睛说”我闭上眼睛啦。“然后我说”想象一下乔躺在棺材里，他死了，你难过么？“她会说”我不难过。“当我们是孩子的时候我们就会做类似这样的事情。很喜欢玩这样的游戏。你能看出我们多么憎恨他。现在我很爱自己的父亲，但是真难，SB，他曾那么粗暴的对我。”

SB: 但是你知道么？当你开始觉得憎恨了，作为一个孩子这些事会让你变得污浊，你有没有过“我想躲起来，我想这么做。”的想法？

MJ:有啊，我要成为一个优秀的表演者，这样我就会得到别人的爱。

SB:所以你觉得你可以改变他，如果正如你所想的那样，成为一名巨星，事业成功，被全世界的粉丝爱戴着，你父亲也会爱你的？

MJ: 是呀。

SB:  所以你以这种方式改变了他。

MJ:对，我希望，一直希望从他人身上得到更多的爱，因为我那么渴望，你知道么，你需要爱，你需要爱，这是最重要的事情。这就是我对那些孤儿，在医院里的孩子感到难过，他们那么孤独，他们只和床绑在了一起他们和床在一起，是因为他们没有足够的支撑，我说”你是神经病吗？我去他们每一个床去解放他们，我说”不能这么对待孩子，你不能把他们绑起来，或者用墙把他们囚禁起来。就像在罗马尼亚那样，让那些孩子在渣滓里睡觉。

SB: 你更认定那些人像什么”因为你们也很是敏感的？“

MJ:对，我总和Mushki说得最多的是 ( rabi's 最大的女儿，当时12岁]  '因为跟我能感觉到她的痛苦，她陷入痛苦之中，当珍妮经受肥胖时期的时候，她总是哭。我的妹妹珍妮，她决定了，她说”我要失败了，她真的失败了，她那是常常不开心。

SB:你是把她看做小妹妹一样来保护她么？

MJ: 是啊，我下定决心让她减肥，我真坏啊，我总是捉弄她，这让她放弃了，我不喜欢她这样。我不喜欢这样，因为我知道她经历着艰难的时期。

SB: 那你怎么开始劝她的呢？

MJ:我说，老妹啊，你得减肥啦，你看你胖的，跟只母牛似的，（嘎嘎，不好意思啊，不过真挺搞笑的）我总是这么跟他说，我这么说很缺德，她会说“你给我闭嘴。”我回敬她“你才闭嘴呢。”但我想要我老妹看起来更棒，因为在我心底啊，我深爱我老妹。我要她变得光彩照人，当她变成一个大明星的时候 ，你知道么，对于她那些唱片，我很开心，也很自豪。你知道，她做得好极了。

SB: 你始终把她当做妹妹一样保护着么？

MJ: 是的，是的，我希望我们更亲近些，我们在灵魂上时亲密无间的，而不是因为是一家人的原因。因为我们从不庆祝，现在我们没有理由聚在一起。但我希望那种感觉会在我们心间流淌，我爱你们这些家伙所做的，做一些赐福的事，它深深的感动了我的心。（他指得是安息日的晚餐）我明白了你们为什么和他们那么亲近了，这真美好
作者: My可儿    时间: 2009-10-7 21:04
迈迷太伟大了，我爱你们
作者: BigBee    时间: 2009-10-7 21:13
翻译25楼中~~
作者: abj73    时间: 2009-10-7 21:14
谢谢所有翻译的朋友们，你们很棒

很想更进一步的了解MJ
作者: MJ心随风逝去    时间: 2009-10-7 21:18
好帖子！先顶再看~
感谢所有参与翻译的朋友们 你们真是辛苦了~
作者: 熊顿    时间: 2009-10-7 21:43
本帖最后由 熊顿 于 2009-10-7 22:36 编辑

Part 3- Fame in adulthood
THINKING ABOUT AMBITION, SUCCESS, AND HONESTY  成人期的名望
对野心，成功，和诚实的想法
-------------------------------

SB:那么野心也可以是件好事，只要它不是那么的残酷，只要不牵涉嫉妒羡慕？

MJ:是的，只要它不会伤害任何人。野心是个好东西，它让我们专注工作，努力思考，创造更美好的生活。去了解所有关于智慧的好东西，因为我们不是生来就懂得这些的。你必须去寻找关于生活的真理，一旦你明白了这些，你知道你还有改进的余地，这多好啊~！

SB:所以你想让孩子拥有野心，而不是去遏制它？

MJ:他们有的，你得让他们去。

SB:让我们谈谈诚实吧。最童真的品质就是彻底的诚实，有时候孩子说的真话是挺残忍的。比如他们总是有什么说什么。特别是在他们成长到他们懂得如何去说谎之前。如果你是个胖子他们就说你胖，如果你长得难看他们就说你丑，如果你有体味他们就说你臭。这难道都是好事么？还是说我们应该更圆滑一点？

MJ:我觉得我们应该教导他们怎么样才能不伤害别的人的感情，昨天我和王子来这里的时候，一个和我一起工作的音乐家是个胖子，很胖，王子就说：“他有个像气球一样的大肚子~！”我说：“Prince，你是对的，但是你见到他时别在他面前说他胖，不然他会哭的！”他说：“好吧，我保证不说。”我这样教导他不要伤害到别人（的感情）。

SB: "好吧，但孩子们说真话还是值得奖励的吧？所以你没有告诉王子那个人并不胖，因为让他撒谎就那就不是童真的东西了，你只是告诉他有时候你要把真话藏在肚子里，你没有对王子说“他这样挺好的，他并不胖。”

MJ:我没这么说。

SB:那么，最重要的是做个诚实的人。让我们这么假设，如果（制作专辑过程中）你有个员工（音乐家），他工作效率不高，妨碍了整个专辑的制作进程呢，那你会怎么办呢？

MJ:我正巧碰上了这样的状况，有位女士演奏完全不在调上，我对他们的人说，“让她继续，但是明天不能让她过来了”第二天她并没有得到要过来表演的通知。我们只是暗中安静地处理了这件事。

SB:所以有时候面对这种尴尬状况处理的时候必须要诚实并且试着不要伤害到他人。

MJ:你必须在不伤害他们的前提下去做。

SB:那么说你觉得有一种不用伤人也可以诚实的方法？

MJ:当然，我一般不去定我的短片的演员（MJ一直叫自己的MV为短片）特别是有孩子来参演的情况下。我不想站在他们面前说“让我们看看你能做什么”然后他们做了，但是却没被录用。那他们会说：“MJ让我失望了。”有别人去记下这些演员，然后我在家看并且做决定（录用谁）。我不能面对他们没被录用时的脸。所以我一般都是这么做的。

(blah blah)一顿废话

SB:那么，在你抚养王子和巴黎过程中，诚实是很重要的一点啦。

MJ:（转向王子）那上面有便便，Prince，那上面都是便便，不要弄到你头发上。这是狗狗的便便铲（译者：= =|），别弄到你头发上。（哎呦喂！槌桌！实在是太可爱啦！王子，来，阿姨抱抱。。。）

SB在谈各路小报是如何将MJ描绘成一个细菌恐惧症者，而这完全是捏造事实。

SB:顺便问一下我刚刚说过保罗麦卡特尼是个最大的卡通收藏家，你觉得这个伟大的艺术家很童真么？？

MJ:是的，是的，他真的很喜欢卡通。他是认真的。他收藏卡通。现在我可比他厉害啦，如果你去我的影碟馆可以看到一排又一排的卡通，因为我超爱卡通的。对我来说这是个很好的逃避方式，在卡通世界里。（译者：或者翻译成“我很喜欢逃避到卡通世界里去”）

SB:（在思考你的成功时）你是不是对自己说了些什么？“我是幸运的，（我的音乐）来自上帝，不只是我自己创造的。这是天赐的礼物，所以我没资格自大。”

MJ:是的，人们总是问我为什么不会让这些冲昏头脑，显然，我不会那样。我不是米开朗基罗，他拥有那些神的灵感，那也是天赐的礼物。我想你能在一定程度上陶冶艺术情操什么的，但是成为一个真正意义上的天才，那是上天赐与的。。。

（你不会想知道这个两面派SB在这段说了些什么SHIT。。。）

SB:刻薄的人们都是目光短浅的鼠辈。他们吹毛求疵。我们怎么就越是长大却越是小气（卑劣）？当我们成熟后，我们的身体在长大，可是我们的思想却越来越狭隘。你觉得孩子们比成人更拥有一颗宽容的心吗？是什么让我们退化了（译者：这里写的是THEM，但我觉得是WE）。——这里Vick跳过了SB的废话

MJ:你知道么，SB?当你和我一样周游了世界并看到我了我所看到的一切，你将很难诚实面对自己。我不能想象自己不被看过的那些事物感动，就像那个中国的村庄，还有在非洲，俄罗斯，德国，以色列看到的一些事情。。。（MJ给了一位穷苦的女士一些钱并让她好好喂养猫咪，她履行了承诺但是猫养肥之后她却把猫给吃了。）（英文部分不完整，猜译）
MJ:我记得那些新生儿挣扎着活着，一出生鼻子里就插满了东西（译者：这句不清楚，难道是呼吸管？），在以色列的医院里。你怎能不为之动容。我对每一个人说，那些孩子们，每一个：“过来孩子们，你们得看看这个。”因为我觉得他们应该去体会孩子是多么的重要，去帮助别人，向世界上的穷苦的人们伸出手，要一直有这样的觉悟。（Vick说她看到这段很悲伤。）

SB-问了老长的问题，关于为什么成功没冲昏头脑啦，他怎么依然保持他善感的心啦，不傲慢自大啦，经常去孤儿院啦，为什么别的很多成功人士都有的坏毛病都没发生在M身上啦这类的。。。

MJ:这个很难回答，我想我只是对人们的痛苦和爱的感觉非常敏感，我想这就是源于我内心的东西。

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
第一次翻译，有些英文习惯用语和中文习惯用语不一样，我按中文习惯来翻了，所以不能逐句对上。请lovelymj大人指正~！
作者: lovelymj    时间: 2009-10-7 21:50
hoho,看到某人的电话号码拉？
作者: antarctt    时间: 2009-10-7 21:51
期待啊。大家真是太棒了。
作者: shell88    时间: 2009-10-7 21:54
很喜欢MJ这样的处事方式，外圆内方，很和谐，很给人留面子。
作者: jessicayang    时间: 2009-10-7 22:13
哇……都快翻完啦，人多就是力量大啊，哈哈……
我逐段看了英文，越来越觉得MJ的内心有着那么丰富的情感和强大力量……他走了，世界上还有这样的人么？我知道的所有人中只有MJ令我有这样的感觉，真正的独一无二……
作者: 熊顿    时间: 2009-10-7 22:14
我汗！失手将朋友的电话贴上来了。。。
说到电话，我改了我的号码，尾号是625。。。。
翻译真是辛苦啊，意会的话很简单，自己知道就好了，但是要写出来再理顺，真是太TMD难了！
所以更感谢翻译的亲们，自己翻过后才知道其中的痛苦啊！！！
作者: lilimo    时间: 2009-10-7 22:16
中国那个村庄？是广东那个? 给他留下了什么印象呢？



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