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这老头老太太陪审员上电视说他们后悔了
无语……
Rita Cosby Interview - Two Jurors
August 8th, 2005
UNCHECKED TRANSCRIPT
>> Thanks a lot, Keith, glad to be aboard. Hello, everybody, this is a premier of our new show. I'm coming to you live and direct from MSNBC world headquarters.
>> Two jurors in the Michael Jackson case tell me they voted to acquit the pop star even though they think he's guilty. What you're about to hear puts the Jackson case in a whole new light. It was a spectacle Michael Jackson began way confident swagger and signature step. But at the end of the trial, even with a not guilty verdict in his pocket, Jackson looked like anything but a winner. He was acquitted on all 10 counts. The jury was unanimous.
>> We certainly had formed lasting friendships.
>> I've made 19 new friends. You know?
>> Now that united front has been shattered.
>> Yes, I believe that they did let a guilty man go through through -- man go free.
>> They're the mans that let a pedophile go.
>> Two jurors. Tonight they speak out. An exclusive behind the scenes account of the trials, the jury and Michael Jackson himself.
>> How did you feel when you got picked for the Michael Jackson jury?
>> I was totally shocked, Rita. I had never been on a jury before. Much less than a high profile case like this one. It's like your whole world changes. And now you're someone that you weren’t before.
>> I tried to get off.
>> Right away?
>> Right away. I stood up and told them I was opinionated and that I didn’t like child -- people that mistreated children.
>> What did you think of Michael Jackson? Were you star struck?
>> Not at all am I star struck by anyone like that. And I wasn’t -- I'm just not a fan of Mr. Jackson.
>> Did you think any of the other jurors were star struck early on?
>> Oh you bet ya. From the get go they were star struck. A couple of them, I know. It just -- this one lady I sat next to on the other side of me was just, oh Michael. You know. She just really star struck.
>> Which juror was that?
>> That was the one that we refer as [inaudible].
>> Juror number --
>> 6.
>> Do you think she was so star struck so early on that she could never even consider guilty?
>> I think so.
>> Juror number 6, 23-year-old Tammy Bolton of Lompoc, California. Bolton says she felt the pressure of public attention during the trial but denies being star struck and says she judged the trial fairly.
>> In the videotape that was played in court, Michael Jackson said woe never molest boys .. that that wasn’t him. Did you believe him?
>> Michael Jackson also says he's never had plastic surgery. I do believe that? No. I don’t believe that.
>> Jackson actually has acknowledged two surgeries. Though an expert consulted by NBC news believes the number is higher.
>> When the young accuser finally took the stand, what did you think? Did you believe him?
>> I did not believe everything he had to say. I believed he was molested. But I also think that his mother put him up to some of this.
>> You believed the boy was molested?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> No doubt in your mind?
>> No doubt in my mind whatsoever. That boy was molested, and I also think he was -- enjoyed to some degree of being Michael Jackson's toy. And all the goodies that came with being Michael Jackson's toy.
>> Do you also believe that boy was molested?
>> In the end, I did, yes.
>> You believed 100% this boy was molested?
>> Yes, I do.
>> To this day, you do?
>> Absolutely.
>> The boy's mother proved to be the central figure in the trial.
>> She takes this stand and instead of answering the questions to the attorneys, she would get the question, turn to us and snarl her answers and give it a couple of times and then she kept snapping her fingers at me. I kept thinking, you snap your fingers at me, lady. I was really getting very angry, because she was not making points.
>> Thus the phrase that now has become famous.
>> Don’t snap your fingers at me lady!
>> There are certain witnesses you believe and certain ones you don’t believe. I don’t believe Macaulay Culkin when he says I was never molested by Michael Jackson. I don’t believe Brett Barnes. I don’t believe Wade Robson. I think they all have something to lose if they admit to that.
>> Robison, Barnes and Culkin, witnesses the prosecution claimed were molested by Jackson. They all denied it.
>> You say why don’t I believe this witness? Why don’t I believe what they're saying? Maybe it's because someone has paid them to say what they're saying.
>> Are you suggesting that witnesses in the case were bought off?
>> Yes.
>> You believe so?
>> Yes. I believe so. I believe one of the biggest ones was Debbie Rowe.
>> Oh, yes.
>> His ex-wife.
>> Ok, it might not have been money. Maybe Debbie Rowe has enough money the way it is but it was through promises, promises that she was going to be able to see her children more often. I think she was going through some sort of court proceeding to get her custody restored on the children. She had some reasons for saying what she did.
>> She looked at Michael Jackson and the adoration and the love absolutely poured from every pour in her body. She -- pore in her body.
>> That's different from being paid off.
>> Well, she sure did a back two-step. She didn’t come up with anything that the prosecutor said she was going to tell us.
>> You believe something else happened. Someone got to Debbie Rowe.
>> She had something to gain.
>> Despite their suspicions, ray and Ellie offered no payoff to anyone involved in the Jackson trial. There was another woman in the courtroom that caught the attention of the jurors, not a witness but Michael Jackson's mother.
>> I look at Mrs. Jackson like a wonderful mother, because all good mothers, no matter what our kids do, no matter how they hurt us, no matter how ashamed we are if they're our kids, we stick by them and that's what Mrs. Jackson did. I prayed every night for that lady, because I think she needs all the prayers, because she has a very sixth sense.
>> We reached out for Debbie Rowe to reaction for the explosive claims. Her attorney told us "the questions about the allegations don’t dignify any response." I'm sure who has a lot to say about this interview joining me now live, Michael Jackson's attorney, Tom Mesereau. Tom, could any of the main witnesses like Debbie Rowe, some of the others, the former manager, Bob Jones, could they have been bought off in some form?
>> I have no knowledge of anyone being bought off. I don’t believe anyone was bought off. I think the allegations by these former jurors are embarrassing and outrageous. They're embarrassing themselves and embarrassing the system. These people voted not guilty 14 times. Not just 10. There were 10 counts, but the last four counts allowed them to vote guilty on misdemeanor counts. They even voted not guilty on them. They said not guilty 14 times. Judge Melville looked at them in open court and said, "this your verdict? They then said, yes. They then gave interviews and said the proof isn’t there. Now after two months of being discharged from their responsibilities of jurors, they're now changing their tune. I think it's laughable.
>> Now, did you know, did you get the sense you had some of these jurors in your pocket? Juror number 2, the one that Ellie kept saying says oh Michael. Did you feel you had these jurors?
>> I thought this was an intelligible jury who could see the problems with this case.
>> Could they make the allegation they were star struck?
>> You don’t have to be star struck to look at a videotape when the accuser is saying Michael Jackson did nothing. You don’t have to listen to an audiotape when the accusers say Michael Jackson did nothing. They they went to social workers and said Michael Jackson did nothing. You saw the differences on the witness stand. The changed positions they had throughout the trial. We pout many witnesses and questioned their credibility and ethics to many questions. You don’t have to be star struck to say, I don’t believe any of these people for a second.
>> Did you observe any interaction with Michael Jackson's mother or any other jurors?
>> I did not. I saw the juror being -- jury being intelligent and attentive. We have people with various degrees and good deployment. Not one alternate was needed during a five-month trial. We thought it was an extremely intelligent responsible jury. I still think they are. Think the two jurors are embarrassing themselves.
>> Stick around, Tom Mesereau. Thank you, you at home, what you've heard so far is just the beginning.
>> If these two jurors believed Michael Jackson is a pedophile, what would make them vote to acquit?
>> The air reeked of hatred.
>> When we come back, the inside story of what really happened behind closed doors.
>> Welcome back to our exclusive interview. So what would cause two jurors to change their convictions in the Michael Jackson case and in their words let a pedophile go free? Here now is the pressure you never saw behind closed doors.
>> Was the jury one big happy family when you went into the deliberation room?
>> I think prior to deliberations, I think that there was some camaraderie, it wasn’t really until we got into the deliberation room and found that -- found out what was in people's minds that we realized we're not on the same key here.
>> So it really surprised me when everybody seemed to turn and get so mean.
>> You go back into the jury room, start deliberating. After a few hours, you have sort of an unofficial vote. What were the results?
>> About 2/3 of the jury were considering Michael Jackson as not guilty at that time.
>> Where were you?
>> I was on the guilty side.
>> No you were the first one to side -- to say guilty.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> She said it in a big way.
>> Right away.
>> I said it in a big way. They came after me with a vengeance. I really got attacked.
>> How so?
>> I didn’t understand. I didn’t know. I was too old.
>> And there was a third juror, Katharina Carls, a 39-year-old government worker who told us she too initially believed Michael Jackson was guilty.
>> She was very bright. She had taken a lot of notes. She knew exactly what was going on. And it amazed me when one of the other jurors challenged this particular juror that she may not really know too much about the American justice system, because she'd only been a citizen for two years.
>> How tough did it get for the two of you and this other juror, there you are, and three of you holding out and the other nine are livid?
>> You won’t wind up thinking, ok if I stay with my convictions that I believe that Michael Jackson is a child molester and that he did, in fact, molest this accuser, then what's the next thing that could happen? Ok, you probably wind up with a hung jury. You wind up with a mistrial. Whatever. With this kind of cloud hanging over your head and you're thinking, I spent five months of my life in this trial and nobody is going to kick me off of this trial, um, until it's over.
>> I then asked ray and Ellie about the jury foreman, 63-year-old Paul Rodriguez, a retired school counselor. To hear ray tell it, it was ray himself who sometimes acted as foreman.
>> The person selected as the foreperson, I think he was overwhelmed with his responsibility into thinking he was primarily a go-between between the deliberators and the -- deliberators and the judge. There were one point where Ellie had stated her opinion. It was very early in the deliberation and immediately the foreman complains about inflexibility. I frankly turned to the foreman and said I think you're being totally unfair to Ellie.
>> You say you were threatened by the foreman. What did he say to you?
>> He said if I cannot change my mind or go with the group or be more understanding that he would have to notify the bailiff, the bailiff would notify the judge and the judge would have me removed. I kept my position that I felt Michael was guilty.
>> So if you stuck to your guns that Michael Jackson was guilty, the foreman said, you're going to be kicked off.
>> I'm going to be removed or kicked off, yes.
>> A judge can discharge a juror for refusing to deliberate, but a juror cannot be discharged simply for disagreeing with other jurors. Jury foreman Rodriguez declined a request for our interview.
>> How angry are you with the way you were treated buy jurors?
>> The thing that really got me the most was the fact that people just wouldn’t take those blinkers off -- blinders off long enough to really look at all the evidence that was there.
>> So what happened that day when the verdict came down? How bad was the air?
>> The air reeks of hatred and people were angry. I had never been in an atmosphere like that before. I just felt that I -- that they could turn to me any minute and there wasn’t anything I could do about it.
>> Did you tell anyone how bad it was for you?
>> I called my daughter. And she was very comforting. She said, mother, you've done right. Your conscious is clear. You're a strong lady, and you can handle it. And you can handle them.
>> But you didn’t.
>> I didn’t. I caved in.
>> Gets someone thrown off a jury? Joining me now MSNBC's Dan Abrams, host of "the Abrams report." Dan, what causes someone to get thrown off?
>> Well, they would have had to have complained about it at the time. You can’t get thrown off for disagreeing. You really have to do something pretty awful to get thrown off a jury. It's a very extreme measure to throw someone off a jury. So basically, someone would have to, for example, bring in outside material and say, look, I've been researching this and I can tell you for the amount of time we've been deliberating, we've been focusing on the wrong issues because of what I saw on the internet. That could get someone thrown off the jury, someone who simply refuses to deliberate. We say refuses to deliberate" that doesn’t mean saying "I don’t agree with you." "I'm not going to go with you on this" it means saying "I'm not going to talk to you this." It's very rare.
>> How preposterous is it if you believe the interviewers and Katharina Carls agreed with us. The foreman said if you don’t agree with me, you'll get thrown off. That's preposterous.
>> It's preposterous.
>> That's improper. It's not the jury rule.
>> Improper things happen inside the jury room all the time. That's the thing people fail to recognize in some cases. People if you really go through each and everything that jurors say behind closed doors if you go back and evaluate it, you'll find that in many cases, jurors say things, they do things they're not supposed to do. The problem here is that Michael Jackson was found not guilty and as a result, the prosecutors can’t appeal it. So really there's nothing as a legal matter that can be done as a result of these jurors engaging in this sort of conduct unless you're talking about prosecuting individual jurors for their actions. Did they engage in perjury? Jury tampering? Something like that.
>> What about -- you covered this case from the beginning, basically, until the end. I was stunned. We all saw the wonderful picture of one, big happy family. Clearly it was not. Were you shocked to hear this?
>> I was surprised to hear the level of the discord, particularly because you heard these jurors after the verdict in particular Mr. Hultman talk about the fact he thought there was reasonable doubt here. You didn’t hear him the next day saying, I got pressured into doing this you heard Ellie talking, as you pointed out before, talking about the mother in this case saying I didn’t like the way she did this. I didn’t like the way she did that.
>> All right, Dan, thank you very much. We appreciate your perspective. You can catch Dan weeknights at 6:00 P.M. Eastern time here on MSNBC. And up next, the question everyone wants to know, why are these two jurors telling their story now? What is in it for them? And some new details on what Michael Jackson is doing now.
>> And NBC is the only team there to catch it all on tape.
>> Welcome back, everybody. I'm Rita Cosby "live & direct" tonight from MSNBC world headquarters. Now back to my exclusive interview. What would motivate two of the Jackson jurors who set the pop star free to speak out now and tell the world that they think he's a pedophile?
>> What kind of a person is Michael Jackson?
>> He's a sick person. He's really sick. He's got issues that I wouldn’t want on my worst enemy. He needs to get help. If he really loves children, he needs to get help.
>> What would you say to that?
>> Michael come on, get in tuned with the rest of the world. Change your behavior. Don’t sleep with boys. I think I even mentioned it in the deliberation room that if he's not convicted for these crimes now that it's going to happen five years from now.
>> Are you saying Michael Jackson say serial child molester?
>> Yes. I think he is.
>> So why didn’t you come up with a compromise verdict? Push them to find him guilty on the alcohol or conspiracy but not on the molestation.
>> We tried. We tried.
>> You can’t get them to compromise on anything. Not one thing did they compromise. But no one ever threatened to have them removed and alternates come in.
>> But people at home are going to say you two have no backbone, that you caved?
>> You know, you have to be there.
>> Yeah. You have to be there. Walk in our shoes.
>> Walk in our shoes. We were trying to keep this from becoming a mistrial.
>> Ray and Ellie both expressed doubts about the impartiality of some of their fellow jurors.
>> It was, it was unbelievable to me when I found out that one of the jurors had actually attended the victory party for Michael Jackson after the trial. I mean, it was -- that was inconceivable to me.
>> He was talking about juror number 10. 45-year-old Pauline Coccoz who said after the trial that she could relate to the stress Jackson was feeling, because she felt it too.
Coccoz didn’t respond to our request for an interview.
>> Another jurors who will be watching this will be angry at you. Are you ready for the onslaught?
>> Yeah, I'm ready.
>> They can be as angry as they want to they ought to be ashamed. They're the ones that let a pedophile go.
>> I would say they made the wrong decision.
>> Some of your words may come back to haunt you, right? You said a day after the verdict --
>> I'm not uncomfortable with the decision that we made.
>> Very different from what you're saying today.
>> Like I said, I'm not uncomfortable with it, because I felt I can did -- I felt I did my job. I did my job as a deliberator in trying to bring the issues to the table and to make sure that everything was looked at.
>> But you're telling me you let someone you believe is a child molester go free. You should feel bad about that if that's the case.
>> I think that Michael Jackson is going to be back in court again if he doesn’t change his behavior. If he doesn’t wake up to what's going on.
>> Do you regret letting Michael Jackson walk?
>> Yes. I do regret letting him walk, but I don’t think I could have done anything different.
>> Do you believe Michael Jackson is a danger to young boys?
>> I --
>> Boy, I do. I don’t have to hesitate on that one, ray. I just really think he's a danger to young boys. And I -- breaks my heart to even think about him being around young boys.
>> But you both let him go back on the street.
>> Because we had no choice.
>> Why are you coming out now and speaking?
>> It's because there were a lot of people that were interested in this case from day one. People expect to know what's going on with their justice system and how things work.
>> I'm speaking out now because I believe it's never too late to tell the truth.
>> Ray and Ellie are writing books about their experience. As are several other members of the Jackson jury.
>> People watching this at home are going to hear a book or movie deal and going say you're motivated by money now to talk. Are you motivated by the money aspect.
>> No, I'm not motivated by money at all.
>> No. No.
>> I see you, I see this is a woman that feels guilty about what she did. She probably cries about what she did.
>> Sure. Sure do. But god has forgiven me. Now I have to forgive myself. I will.
>> If the boy is watching right now, what would you want to say to him?
>> What would I want to say to him right now?
>> Do you feel you let him down?
>> No, I did the best I could. I did the best I could with -- in my surroundings. I've prayed for that young gun every night. As I have prayed for Mrs. Jackson.
>> Ellie cook has trademarked her now famous words "don’t snap your fingers at me, lady." The line will be printed on t-shirts. She plans to begin selling in the fall with proceeds going to the charity feed the children. Both Ellie and ray have separate book and movie deals in development with Larry Garrison, president of silver creek entertainment. Ellie's book will be called "guilty as sin, free as a bird." Ray's book will be called "the Deliberator." Joining me again is Michael Jackson's attorney, Tom Mesereau whose client, we should point out from the beginning, as denied all of these charges. You know, tom, these two jurors don’t mince words. You heard me repeatedly ask them. They say your client was a serial child molester.
>> They voted not guilty 14 times, each one of them. They stated in open court this was their verdict. They gave interviews after the trial and said case wasn’t proven. They seem to get along with their fellow jurors right after the trial. They were on Larry King with their fellow jurors and seemed to get along quite well and, you know, now they've changed their tune two months late after they've been freed from their responsibilities as jurors and after they talked to various people about book and movie deals. I don’t buy what they're saying for one second.
>> Now, Tom in fairness to them, the other jurors, there's a lot of other jurors that will looking at book and movie deals, not just these two jurors and they'll donate the proceeds to kids' charities.
>> Are the jurors changing their story? Are the jurors running to tv sets to try to become controversial and be seen? And what do you think of someone who changes their position that radically within two months? The fact of the matter is, they've been talking to people that they weren’t allowed to talk to when they were jurors. They've been reading material and watching material they weren’t allowed to do when they were jurors. They have no more responsibility to the system, to the trial judge, to the parties or to their fellow jurors. They're free as can be and now they're going on television and changing their positions 1,000%. I don’t think anyone else does.
>> What do you say, though, to the two people? Ellie, I can tell you, I spent some time with them. Ellie in particular, you know, both of them, you know, seem obviously upset about it Ellie seems completely guilt-ridden and feels terrible and says, look, I was 79 years old, I didn’t want to die in the jury room. This is a horrible experience for me. Is it fair for to you judge their experience?
>> Well, I was not in the jury room. I can’t say anything about what happened there. But I can tell that you they seem like mature, intelligent people.
>> They also seem fairly sincere.
>> They could have complained to the bailiff any time. They could have sent notes to the judge when they wanted. They could have launched all sorts of complaints. They didn’t do anything like that they came in and said not guilty 14 times. 10 felony counts and four misdemeanor counts that says it all.
>> Juror -- misdemeanor counts. That says it all.
>> Juror number 10 went to the victory party. You saw the piece. This isn’t illegal. Doesn’t this seem in bad taste? The verdict comes down. Then she goes to the victory party?
>> No, it's not. I think she knew Michael Jackson was completely innocent and falsely accused and shouldn’t have been put through ordeal. If she knew that, she knew the truth.
>> Don’t you want your jurors, just like you're accusing these folks, you want to keep a distance of impartiality. That's the best juror. That's why we Americans put them there.
>> Judge Melville when he discharged them said you're free to talk to anyone you want and they were. The juror that attended that party did nothing wrong. She knew Michael Jackson was innocent. Judge Melville said she was free to talk to anyone. Why not? She want to a party for an innocent man.
>> What do you think people can learn from these jurors? Surely there's a positive message you can portray from them?
>> Beware of the lure of fame and fortune. Beware of the lure of publicity. Beware of the lure of cameras.
>> Let's talk about Michael Jackson speaking of someone we've not seen in the cameras. I think recently was fascinating. We saw coverage he was in the hospital after the verdict came down. We didn’t know that until recently. What happened?
>> Well, he was dehydrated. He was malnourished. He hadn’t been able to sleep. Was deteriorating physically and emotionally. He needed medical attention.
>> How's he doing now?
>> I'm told he's doing quite with he's sleeping better and eating better and gained weight. He's with his family and his children and he's moving on in life.
>> And, in fact, we were reading some reports today, the paper was saying you have a brand-new red Ferrari. He seems to be doing pretty. Is that your understanding?
>> I know nothing about that.
>> Are you going take a spin in the Ferrari at some point?
>> I have no idea.
>> All right.
>> I don’t even know if it exists.
>> What about Bahrain? Do you think he'll take up residence? There's been a whole bunch of reports? Do you think we'll see him back-and-forth? What can we expect in the future?
>> I really don’t know, Rita. I've not discussed his future with him. I don’t know.
>> Tom, we do appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you for having me. Congratulations on your new show.
>> Thank you very much, tom. We appreciate it. And by the way, we did repeatedly ask the prosecutor, Tom Sneddon to join us this evening. He declined. We always have tomorrow night where on "live & direct," you'll hear from that person there, the third juror in the Jackson trial who also believed he was guilty. Juror Katharina Carls, the first TV interview since the verdict. You'll also hear live from one of the other jurors who is furious about what Ray and Ellie had to say.
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发表于 2005-8-9 11:47:22
显身卡
狗仔卡
发表于 2005-8-9 12:03:37
发表于 2005-8-9 12:37:20
-他们和其他陪审团分裂了，他们坚信那些陪审员让一个罪人获得了自由
-他们不是MJ的歌迷，不为其明星光环打动，其他陪审员都被明星光环打动了，说其中不少歌迷（如6号陪审员Tammy Bolton）
-记者问这两个陪审员，说MJ在录影带中表示他从来没有猥亵儿童。陪审员反击说，我不相信，他连自己的整容手术都撒谎，别说在这个事情上了
-这两个陪审员说他们毫不怀疑100%的相信这个案件中的男童被猥亵了（虽然一个月前他们在电视上说不相信），而且是他母亲故意让他被猥亵的。说他自愿成为MJ的玩偶。
-还是对男童母亲不满。比如“不要对我打响指”。
-这两个陪审员不相信为MJ辩护的Macaulay Culkin，不相信Brett Barnes，不相信Wade Robson。他们说这三个男童是被买通了的。说Debbie Rowe是为了看到孩子或获得其他利益，所以才在法庭上转而为MJ说好话。
-老太太说她为MJ的母亲Kathrine心痛，因为无论任何母亲都会原谅自己的孩子们，无论他们做了什么错事，怎样伤了大人的心。她说她天天都会为Kathrine祈祷。
-记者想采访Debbie Rowe，她的律师回答是：对这个无礼的指控不予作答
-记者于是采访MJ的律师T-MEZ，MEZ说没有谁是被买通的，认为这两个陪审员是可耻而可恶的。说他们在羞辱自己羞辱司法系统。说这些人为14项指控投下了14项无罪票，其中4项还是轻罪，很容易判的，法官专门设计出来让他们轻易判处的，但他们还是投下的无罪，法官望着他们说，这是你们的裁决吗？他们都说是的，之后他们还接受采访说，没有证据。但现在两个月后，但他们不再是陪审员后，他们开始改变他们的口径，MEZ说这太可笑了，认为是仇恨的氛围让他们改变的。
-老太太说当时陪审团长威胁她说，如果她不和大伙意见一致认为MJ无罪，他就会通知法官，把她撤职。但记者调查显示，根据法律，法官无权因为一个陪审员因为和大家意见不同而将其撤职。
-说宣判那天，空气中充满仇恨，老太太说她最终屈服了
-NBC主持人Dan Abrams表示，如果是真的，老太太应该当时就上诉给法官，而且没有人会因为意见不同而被撤职。除非某人干了很过分的事情，比如把外部材料带进商议室。说“你和我意见不同，你就会被扔出去”，这种说法是荒谬的。说听到这两个陪审员现在这么说很震惊，因为如果他们是被逼的，他们可以在宣判后的第二天接受电视采访时就说出来。但这两人都没有。
-现在这两个陪审员认为MJ有病，需要帮助。认为他是一个连环娈童犯。说曾在商议室里提过，如果不给他定罪，他五年内又会猥亵男童
-这两个陪审员都说，他们怀疑和他们共事的陪审员们是否公正，因为其中一个（Pauline Coccoz）甚至在审判后出席过MJ家族的胜利聚会。
-说他们已经准备迎接其他陪审员对他们的愤怒，说他们应该感到羞耻，因为他们让一个恋童癖逃脱了。
-记者说他们也是让MJ自由的人，是否也该感觉不好。他们说如果MJ不改行为的话，他很快就会再进法庭。他们说后悔让MJ自由，但表示自己无能为力。
-认为MJ对男孩来说是一种危险。说现在才站出来说这些话是因为人们有兴趣，而且说出真话永远不怕太晚。
-这两个陪审员正在写书。记者问是不是因为金钱动机现在才这么说的，他们否认了。老太祈求上帝原谅她做“错”的这一切，为那个男童祈祷，说她尽力了。她的新书名字叫《罪孽深重却自由如鸟》，老头子的书名叫《商议者》
-记者随后又采访了MJ的律师T-MEZ，T-MEZ指出他们接受了无数采访，甚至上了LARRY KING的谈话节目，说他们一切都好，而就在他们开始和出版商电影洽谈后，他们就改变了所有口风，MEZ说根本不信这两个陪审员的一句话。说这两个陪审员之所以改变了故事，事实是他们在担任陪审员期间，不被准许和不该交谈的闲杂人等谈话。当他们自由了，没有法律责任了，他们就跑到电视上1000%的改变立场。说他们如果遭到威胁，可以立刻报告，但他们当时竟没有这么做，他们投下的十四项无罪票说明了一切。
-MEZ说那个出席胜利聚会的陪审员并没有错，因为法官告诉他们说审判结束后，他们可以和任何人交往说话。那个陪审员出席MJ的胜利聚会是因为她知道真相，出席了一个清白的人的聚会，没有任何错误。MEZ建议那些陪审员说，警惕名气和财富的诱惑，警惕曝光度的诱惑，警惕摄影机的诱惑。
-随后，另外一个愤怒的陪审员出来反驳。Tammy Bolton说那老头老太太都没说真话，对他们的采访表示失望，说他们有权保有自己的立场，说当时商议的时候，每个人都理性的讲话，没有什么威胁冲突。说那老太太没有说出什么事实性的东西。说那老头在看了警察录象之前都认为MJ是清白的，然后全体一起讨论那录象，指出了很多瑕疵。说检方没有证明他们的案子，说她认为MJ是清白的，什么都没做。说她对那老太太为审判来写一本书的做法感到不爽。说写书的话，一个有罪的判决比无罪判决更具吸引力，谁在乎他到底做没做。
-主持人Catherine Crier:看来这两人转变了看法，我对他们很生气，他们应该执行法官的指示，如果他们想的是一个，投的是一个，那他们就做错事了，他们该感到羞耻。
-主持人Savannah Guthrie:很惊讶这两人这么说，尤其是他们说由于意见不同就要被威胁赶出陪审团，这是不可能的。看上去他们是为了出书而这样说的。说陪审团90天内不得洽谈出书，说法官可以判他们藐视法庭罪。
-甚至MJ的老冤家记者Diane Dimond也说：她在审判后采访过那老头，当时他并不是那么强烈反对MJ。说那老太太每天早上都表现怪异，会向她和美联社资深记者Linda D使眼色，但现在这老太太却说她是在向MJ的老母亲使眼色。这个记者说她还和MJ家族的前朋友、现叛徒Stacy Brown谈过，Brown说那两个陪审员让人不舒服，所以他拒绝与他们合作写书。记者说如果陪审员心里想一套，手上投一套的话，他们应该为自己感到羞耻。
发表于 2005-8-9 13:28:56
