【阅读分享并求翻译】Robert Sanger 律师谈 Mj生活及阅读习惯

cat2009

Robert Sanger 律师，是2005年 MJ 辩护律师团成员。
做为 圣芭芭拉县的律师，他与MJ曾有多年的友谊。这是他在MJ去世后，一篇访谈。

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Michael Jackson's Lawyer, Bob Sanger,

Talks to West Coast Sound About the Pop Star,

His Life -- and His Reading Habits

By Randall Roberts, Thu., Jun. 25 2009 @ 7:08PM

In the wake of the the untimely death this afternoon of Michael Jackson, West Coast Sound contacted the late King of Pop's longtime attorney, Bob Sanger. Sanger represented Michael Jackson for 16 years, and sat at the table with Jackson throughout the high-profile 2005 case in which the family of a boy accused Jackson of child sexual abuse. We spoke with Sanger late this afternoon.



Bob Sanger: This is what I want to say. I do think it's appropriate to speak out at this point in honor of Michael. First of all, he was a great musician and performer, and his impact on music goes on today. I saw something on television today, I forgot who it was, but I looked at it, a current star doing a music video, and thought, 'That's Michael Jackson.' You can just see where all that came from that didn't exist before he started doing that sort of thing. The beat, and the music and everything else. That's an impact that he'll have forever, or certainly for a long time. I think that what people don't appreciate about Michael Jackson was as a human being, which I got to see, was privileged to see this, because he does have a lot of people around him.

When you represent him, which I did, unfortunately - unfortunately for him that we had to do this, but you do get very close to a person, and I sat next to him for four months in the criminal case - it took a full four months, and he was there every day. But what I did learn in the years that I represented him - particularly in that last case - is that he is a very kind person. Truly from his heart. And his whole family is like that. His mother, Katherine, and his sisters, LaToya and Janet - they have their own personalities onstage and everything, but they are the kindest, sweetest people you'll ever want to meet. And his brothers are very nice; they offer to do what they can for you.

I remember having a family meeting out at the ranch, in a room out there that was nicely appointed, as everything was. And we were all going to sit down and have a big meeting. And Janet says, 'Bob, you don't have a place to sit.' I told her it was okay, I could stand, and she said, 'No, no, no, I'll get you a chair.' She walks out the door, and I figure she's going to get someone to bring me a chair. She walks in with this big wing-backed armchair that she's carrying into the room - Janet Jackson - for me to sit in. It wasn't remarkable in that it was any different that what you'd expect from anyone in that family, or from her.
They were very kind. You would go to the ranch, or a house elsewhere where we met on other occasions, and you couldn't get away without being offered something to eat or drink. And personally, and I don't mean snap your fingers and someone comes to do it, they would be very concerned and very kind and generous about everything. And Michael was the same way. He believed that one of the things he could do in life in addition to entertainment was that he could really help children. And I know that's going to immediately get some kind of sarcastic response, but it's absolutely true.

I was there at his ranch when he wasn't even there on at least two occasions when he had a giant group of kids come up. One, a bunch of kids who were from hospitals down in LA -- children's wards -- came up with their families and everything else, and another time it was disadvantaged kids with their families, they were brought up and came up on buses - he had a couple of buses - and he would bring people up and it was like they were at Disneyland. His staff was there, and at one point he had a hundred-something people on staff. They would be offering everybody candy, and something to drink, and play in the game room, and go to the movie theater. And you'd see these kids, and it was just remarkable to see these kids and their eyes so wide and being treated this way.

Did the attorney in you ever become concerned with that? Here are hundreds of strangers coming into this multimillionaire's home, and anyone of them could have ulterior motives.

Well, I don't want to get into all that.

No, no, I understand.

Well, you know what? Yeah, the attorney in me, I look at what clients do and I always wonder. But, I've got to tell you: until we saw what this last family tried to do to him, which was so completely bizarre and off-the-wall, unfounded, manipulative -- the DA was so committed to get back at Michael Jackson that they just looked with blinders at these people, and ignored the fact that they had scammed other people, and so on. But when you saw that family and looked at that, you had to say, 'Oh my god, how vulnerable' - clearly he was vulnerable. But for a family like this to be able to get the attention of a district attorney and law enforcement was just remarkable. And it just shows you how vulnerable people can be.

And I've certainly seen that in my career in representing people for the last 35 years, certainly there are cases - people are prosecuted because they're guilty, sure, but people are also prosecuted because the government can, and sometimes there are some bad motives. And I don't want to talk about the particulars of that case, but it was just so clear how vulnerable he was.

The groups stopped at that point because we were in the trial - or at least I didn't see any, because I was busy trying to save his life, basically. But prior to that when I'd see these people come in, the generosity, and the kindness - the staff was told at all times, whenever you go to Neverland, or to his house elsewhere, the staff was always instructed to be absolutely kind to everybody. The kindness ran from the top down. And it wasn't the obsequious kind of stuff. It was true kindness, and it came from the top. Michael was kind, the whole family was. And that's the stuff that people don't see. They don't understand how deep the concept of kindness ran in his family.

And the third thing was that Michael was extremely well-read.

I didn't know that.

No. Few people did. In trial - and I knew Michael, but I got to know him a lot better at the trial. The judge was doing jury selection, and it was time for break. Judge Melville said, 'Ladies and gentlemen, I want you to know that jury service is very, very important.' He's trying to convince people not to have stupid excuses to get out of jury service. All judges do this. He says, 'The jury system is a very time-honored system. It's been around for 200 years. We're going to take a break and come back in 15 minutes.

We stand up and the judge leaves, and Michael turns to me and says, "Bob, the jury system is much older than 200 years, isn't it?' I said, 'Well, yeah, it goes back to the Greeks.' He says, 'Oh yeah, Socrates had a jury trial, didn't he?' I said, 'Yeah, well, you know how it turned out for him.' Michael says, 'Yeah, he had to drink the hemlock.' That's just one little tidbit. We talked about psychology, Freud and Jung, Hawthorne, sociology, black history and sociology dealing with race issues. But he was very well read in the classics of psychology and history and literature.

That's fascinating.

He loved to read. He had over 10,000 books at his house. And I know that because - and I hate to keep referring to the case, because I don't want the case - the case should not define him. But one of the things that we learned - the DA went through his entire library and found, for instance, a German art book from 1930-something. And it turned out that the guy who was the artist behind the book had been prosecuted by the Nazis. Nobody knew that, but then the cops get up there and say, 'We found this book with pictures of nude people in it.' But it was art, with a lot of text. It was art. And they found some other things, a briefcase that didn't belong to him that had some Playboys in it or something. But they went through the guy's entire house, 10,000 books. And it caused us to do the same thing, and look at it.

And there were places that he liked to sit, and you could see the books with his bookmarks in it, with notes and everything in it where he liked to sit and read. And I can tell you from talking to him that he had a very - especially for someone who was self-taught, as it were, and had his own reading list - he was very well-read. And I don't want to say that I'm well-read, but I've certainly read a lot, let's put it that way, and I enjoy philosophy and history and everything myself, and it was very nice to talk to him, because he was very intellectual, and he liked to talk about those things. But he didn't flaunt it, and it was very seldom that he would initiate the conversation like that, but if you got into a conversation like that with him, he was there.

Do you remember the last time you saw him, or talked to him?

The last time I talked to him was right after the trial, and then he moved out of the country. I had not seen him personally, in person - I talked to him on the phone - since them. Of course, I talked to people around him, because we still took care of matters for him. But the best I can say, and I don't want to oversell my significance in his world, but I want to convey this side of him that people didn't see. I just hate - every time I hear Jay Leno or somebody take a cheap shot - and Jay Leno I think is a very funny man - but every time they take a cheap shot I think, that really isn't fair, because that's not who he is. And few people had an opportunity to really experience the kindness of him and his family. And few people really had the opportunity the have these intellectual discussions about great thinkers and writers. Freud and Jung - go down the street and try and find five people who can talk about Freud and Jung.

So I have to ask. Are you representing his estate?

No, no. I represented him up here for Santa Barbara-type matters.

And what's the status of Neverland Ranch?

I don't know the exact - I always hesitate to comment on this because I don't know exactly. It was taken over by an investor. I don't know that it was sold outright, I'm not sure exactly. But Michael - after having it raided three times by the cops to no avail for them, it shook him. He was living there up until the trial, and continued to live there during the trial, but just before the trial, they got a search warrant and went back out, allegedly because they wanted to find as-built plans for the house. And they could have asked us and we would have given them to him. They could have made a motion in court and we would have given them to him. They could have gone down to the archives and got them. But it was just an excuse to go out and raid it one more time. They roused him early in the morning, and his kids were there, and after that he said, 'I don't think I can live here anymore.' And it was a shame. He had his tree. He would go up in this tree, and he wrote some of his songs there. It's kind of like a historic place, but for him it was a very personal place

（来源：http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/2009/06/michael_jackson_lawyer_bob_san.php）

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以下是一位名叫 表里布衣 网友，依据本文及其它参考资料，撰写的介绍MJ 阅读习惯的文章，供参考

    在杰克逊去世后，他的律师鲍勃·桑格（Bob Sanger）接受采访时专门谈到了杰克逊对于阅读的钟爱，“他喜欢阅读，在梦幻庄园(Neverland Valley Ranch)居所中有一个藏书1万册的藏书室（Library）。很多书中都夹有书签。我喜欢读一些哲学、历史之类的图书，他也很有兴趣和我谈此类话题，比如心理学、社会学、黑人历史、弗洛伊德（Freud）、荣格（Jung）、霍桑（Hawthorne）等。在阅读方面，他很内敛，并不炫耀自己的阅读感受。”

    在杰克逊的心目中，阅读是很个人化的，他会列出读书清单，并做阅读笔记，而且在家中的任何角落都可能是阅读的场所。我们可能无从得知杰克逊的藏书目录，但他的藏书曾经让他一度陷入被动。检察官在调查娈童案时，对他的藏书室进行全面的搜查，结果发现了一本书中有裸体照片，但桑格说这是一本德国的艺术类图书，书中的艺术家还曾经被纳粹起诉过，但这些大家并不知晓，并将这些艺术照片认为色情照片。

    娈童案让杰克逊的身心受到强烈的打击，他坚称自己是清白的，并指责媒体不负责任的报道。他问桑格，陪审制度是不是已经超过了200年？桑格说可以追溯到古希腊。他说苏格拉底就曾经被这种制度审判过，而且他还被判死刑并喝下了毒芹汁。杰克逊借希腊哲学家苏格拉底由于不公平的审判被判死刑而饮下毒芹汁来比喻目前自己的处境以及对陪审制度的质疑，这让桑格对他更加刮目相看。

    此外，一生共为慈善事业捐款三亿美金的杰克逊参与了多项慈善项目，包括在年轻人中推广阅读，迈克尔·杰克逊国际读书俱乐部计划就是其中的一个项目。2001年3月26日，杰克逊在新泽西州纽华克的一家戏院里向年轻人派发图书，启动了迈克尔·杰克逊国际读书俱乐部计划。这是他新的拯救儿童慈善计划的项目之一，目的是为了鼓励儿童读书，并促进家长重新开始给孩子们讲床前故事。

    杰克逊的万本藏书大多是自己到书店采购。道格·达顿（Doug Dutton）是一家书店的老板，他第一次见到杰克逊出现在自己的书店是在上世纪八十年代的初期，“他戴着一个大太阳眼镜，随身有保镖，但表现地很平静，没有任何明星派头，每次来书店，他都会买四、五本书”。道格·达顿的兄弟戴夫·达顿（Dave Dutton）记得，在上世纪八十年代末九十年代初，杰克逊曾经希望他们早一点关门，自己能够单独去买书，以免歌迷发现。戴夫·达顿说，“他很友善，喜欢诗歌图书区，并且喜欢拉尔夫·瓦尔多·爱默生(Ralph Waldo Emerson)，从他的歌词中我们能发现一些抽象的哲学意味”。

    杰克逊最钟爱的一本书是詹姆斯·巴里（James Matthew Barrie）的《彼得·潘》（Peter Pan）。由此，他收集任何一种版本的《彼得·潘》。1979年，他捐献了包括《彼得·潘》在内的大量图书给芝加哥公共图书馆的年轻人部，是为了通过一个图书馆计划“随书起舞”（Boogie to the Book Beat）鼓励青年人读书。

    不仅如此，他还将方圆2600英亩的豪宅以《彼得·潘》中的神奇王国“梦幻庄园”来命名，现实中的梦幻庄园里充满了童趣。这个童年不幸的大男孩希望自己是童话书本中的彼得·潘，一个永远都长不大的孩子。我们的流行之王，也许真的从来没有长大过，就像他在《天下一家》（We are the World）中唱的“We are the world, We are the children”。

（以上节选自：http://www.tuyouqibiao.com/archives/1501.html）

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英文盲，求翻译。译好后，请直接转贴至综合论坛，
让更多朋友的欣赏，非常感谢！

一黛

很是喜欢。文笔不好，不敢翻译，看看原文就满足了。

李筱yoyo

这个必须收藏，迈迈太博学多才了

相似相溶

迈迈喜欢超验主义。。

missred07

They roused him early in the morning, and his kids were there, and after that he said, 'I don't think I can live here anymore.' And it was a shame. He had his tree. He would go up in this tree, and he wrote some of his songs there. It's kind of like a historic place, but for him it was a very personal place

看到這段我又想哭了
Tom Sneddon和警方做了太多恐怖的事情 踐踏了 一個美好的人的品格和靈魂

MJ0129

期待高手来翻译一下 谢谢啦

lulmf

谢谢分享，帮顶贴~同求翻译，想看内容~

MJ_等你归来

谢谢分享~等翻译~

maryruan

MARK......

IMISSMJSOMUCH

不错，要多读书

weiwei8787

第一次翻，可能有的意思不是很准确，希望和大家一起分享讨论下哈，仅供参考~
PS：DA是虾米意思，还有一句想了老半天也不知道啥意思。。

在今天下午迈克尔杰克逊的英年早逝之后，West Coast Sound 联系到了已故流行音乐天王的长期合作律师鲍勃桑格。桑格为迈克尔杰克逊工作了16年，与杰克逊坐在一起，代理他在2005年备受关注的一个家庭男孩指控杰克逊性侵害的案件。下午晚些时候我们和桑格进行了谈话。

鲍勃桑格：这就是我想说的，我确实觉在这点上该说些什么了，以此来纪念迈克尔，首先，他是个伟大的音乐家和表演家，并且他对当今的音乐仍有影响。今天我在电视里看到了一些东西，我忘了是什么，但是我看到了一个当代明星在做一个音乐录影带，心里想着，那就是“迈克尔杰克逊”。你会看到他开始做那些事情之前，所有来自MV的东西都不存在。节拍，音乐，或是任何东西。那就是他一直所具备的影响力，或者肯定得说会持续很长一段时间。我想人们不欣赏迈克尔杰克逊的原因是作为一个人，我有幸了解到他身边的确围绕了很多的人。

当你代表他，如同我做的，非常不幸—对他来说也很不幸，我们必须这么做，但是这样可以确实非常接近这个人，在这起案件中我坐在他旁边四个月—花了整整四个月，他每天都在那里。但是在我代表他的这几年里，我确实认识到—特别是最后一个案子—那就是他是个非常好的人。真正的发自内心。他们一家人都是这样，他的母亲，凯瑟琳，他的姐妹，拉托娅和珍妮—他们都有他们自己的个性，在台上或者对每件事情，但他们真的是最善良最仁慈的人，你会很想和他们见面。并且他的兄弟也非常好，他们会做他们能做的事情。

我记得有一次家庭会议，在农场外的一个房间，每一件事情都安排的很妥当，我们正准备坐下来开这一场很重要的会议的时候。珍妮说，“鲍勃，你没有地方坐。”我告诉她没关系，我可以站着，她说，“不，不，不行，我给你拿把椅子。”她走出了门，我猜想她要去找人给我带把椅子。她拿着把大椅子走了进来—珍妮杰克逊为了让我能有个位子坐。你所期望的家庭里有任何一个人有所不同，或者她不同，这都很正常。他们都很友善。你可以去牧场，或者其他场合见面的屋子的任何地方，你没有食物吃或喝的话就不能离开。就我个人来说，我不想打个响指然后有个人过来，他们会对每一件事情都很关心，友善或者慷慨。迈克尔也是如此。他相信他生命中能做的一件事就是除了表演他可以真正的帮到孩子。而且我也知道这马上会招致讽刺的反应，但它绝对是真实的。

我在牧场的时候至少有两次看到他带着一大群孩子们过来。一次是一群来自洛杉矶医院的孩子—儿童病房—和他们的家庭成员一起过来，另一次是一些贫穷的孩子和他们的家人，他们坐在汽车上—迈克尔有几个公共汽车—他会用这样的汽车带人们过来就就像他们在迪斯尼乐园一样。他的员工在那里，有一点要注意的是他有百来个这样的员工。他们每个人都会分到糖果，还有一些饮料，或者去游戏机房玩耍，去戏剧院。你会看到这些孩子们在受到了这些待遇后都瞪大了眼睛，就是这么棒。


作为律师的你曾担心过吗？有成百上千的陌生人来到这个大富翁的家，他们中的任何一个都可能别有用心。

好吧，我不想卷进去。

不，不，我明白。

额，你知道吗？是的，我是律师，我观察我的当事人做的事情也时常不明白。但是，我必须告诉你：直到我看见那个家庭想方设法的对他做那些完全奇异疯狂，无理由无根据并带有控制欲的事情之后—the DA只是戴着有色眼镜看这群人，并忽视了一个事实就是他们也欺骗别人，只是要报复迈克尔。但当你看到那个家庭，看着这件事，你会说，“噢，我的上帝，太容易受到攻击了”显然他很容易受到攻击。但这样的一个家庭很显然引起了检察官和执法部门的注意。这只是表明了一个人是多么的脆弱。


在我职业生涯的这35年里，我的确看到过这么些案例—人们因为有罪而被起诉，当然也有人是因为政府可以并且有时会有些不良的动机而被起诉。我不想谈论这些案例的细节，但很明显他很容易受到攻击。

The groups stopped at that point 因为我们的案件还在进行中，或者说至少我没有看见，因为实际上我正忙着挽救他的生命。但在这之前，当我看到这些人进来，慷慨，友善，无论你何时去梦幻岛，或是他家的其他地方，工作人员都是这样，他们时刻被提醒着要友善的对待每个人。完完全全的友好。不是阿谀奉承那种东西，是一种发自内心的真诚。迈克尔非常真诚，整个家庭也是，那是人们看不到的。他们不明白善良的概念在他们家庭有多么深刻。

第三件事是迈克尔是个相当博学的人。


我不知道那件事情。

没有，没有人能做到这点，在受审期间—我知道迈克尔，但是在审判时我了解他更多了，法官在挑选陪审团成员，到了休息的时间时，法官梅尔维尔说，“女士们先生们，我想要你们知道陪审服务是非常非常重要的，他试图说服人们不要找愚蠢的借口摆脱陪审团。所有的法官都是这么说的。他说，“陪审团制度历史悠久，大约有200年的历史了。我们休息会15分钟再回来。

我们起来，然后法官离开了，迈克尔转向我说，“鲍勃，评审团制度有超过两百年的历史了，是吗？”我说，“嗯，是的，要追溯到古希腊了。”他说，“噢，是的，苏格拉底有陪审团审判的，是吗？”我说，“是的，你知道他后来怎么样了。”迈克尔说，“是的，他不得不饮下毒堇汁。”这只是一个小珍闻。我们谈到了心理学，弗洛伊德和荣格，霍桑，社会学，黑人历史和关于种族问题的社会学。但他也阅览了很多心理学，历史学，文学这些杰作。

那真是不可思议。


他热爱阅读。他的家里有超过1万本的书，我知道这个是因为—我讨厌老是谈论案子，因为我不想它—这起案件不应该否定他。但我们了解的其中一件事是—the DA搜查了整个图书馆，比如发现了一本1930到某个时期的德国艺术类图书。这本书的艺术家被纳粹起诉过。没有人知道这个，但随后警察走过来便说，“我们发现这本书里有裸体图片。”但这是艺术，还有大量的文字。它是艺术。然后他们还找到了些其他的东西，一个不是迈克尔的公文包，里面有些花花公子的杂志和一些别的东西。但他们搜查了整个房子，1万本书。这使得我们做了相同的事情，看看吧。


有些地方他很喜欢坐下来，你可以看见他喜欢读的书里有书签，笔记和一些其他东西。和他的交谈中，我可以告诉你的是他有个特别对一些人来说很个人的，自学的东西，实际上就是他自己的阅读清单—他非常博学。我不想说我也是这样，但我的确看过很多书，我们这么说吧，我很享受自己一个人看哲学，历史或者各种各样的书籍，和他交谈很愉快，因为他很聪明，他也喜欢讨论这些事情。但他从不炫耀，而且他很少主动谈起这些，但如果你在讨论这方面事情的时候，他就会在那里。


你还记得最后一次见他，和他说了些什么吗？

我最后一次和他说话是在审判之后了，然后他搬离了这座城市。我没见过他本人，私下里—从那之后我们通过电话。当然，我和他身边的人交谈过，因为我们仍然很关心他的事情。我能说的是我不想吹捧自己在他的世界里有多么的重要，但我想表达的是人们看不到他的那一面。我只是讨厌—每次杰·雷诺或其他人用了个低价镜头—我觉得杰·雷诺是个很搞笑的人—但每次他们采用低价镜头我觉得真的不公平，因为那不是真正的他。很少人有机会能真正体会他和他的家庭的友善。而且很少人有这个机会能和伟大的思想家和作家进行知识性的讨论。弗洛伊德和荣格来到大街上试图想找到5个可以和他们谈Freud and Jung这本书。

因此我不得不问下，你代理过他的财产吗？

不，没有。我代理他在圣巴巴这里的事物。


梦幻庄园的现状怎么样？

我不知道确切的—我总是犹豫就这个是不是该发表看法因为我不知道确切的信息。它被一个投资商接手了。我不知道它是不是被当场买下了，我不是很确定。但在这所庄园被警察突然搜查了三次并毫无益处的时候，迈克尔动摇了。他在案子发生前一直住在那里，并且在审讯期间也住在那里，但就在审判前，他们拿到了搜查令又再次回来，说是他们想找这所房子的竣工图纸。他们可以问我们要，我们会给他们，他们可以在法庭提出我们也会提供给他们。他们可以去档案室，那里也能拿到。但这仅仅只是一个借口让他们可以再去搜查一次。他们一大早就把迈克尔弄醒，他的孩子也都在，之后迈克尔便说，“我认为这里我不能再住下去了。”这是一个耻辱。他有自己的树。他会爬到树上，在那里写过一些歌曲。这就像是一个非常具有历史意义的地方，但对他来说也是很私密的。