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A quarter century with the biggest producers
Mr Bonzai | 6 November 2006
Mr Bonzai talks ‘25 years of music making’ to Bruce Swedien, including his work as co-producer and engineer on Michael Jackson’s classic albums Thriller, Bad and Dangerous and his current work with Jennifer Lopez and many more top acts…
Bruce Swedien was born in 1934 and discovered a love of recording through a present from his father at just ten years of age. He eventually made a career out of music and first hit the big time in the 50s and 60s recording Duke Ellington and Frankie Valli And The Four Seasons. He met Michael Jackson out in LA while working on the movie The Wiz and then went on to help record some of Jackson’s biggest hits. He has also worked with Mick Jagger, Diana Ross, Count Basie, B B King, Paul McCartney and many more hugs stars. MixBuss’ Mr Bonzai recently caught up with Swedien to discuss the last quarter century of music making…
So we’re looking back at your 25 years of music production. Tell us what you were doing back in 1981?
I was working on Thriller. When you go into a project like that you have no idea how important it is going to be, or how important it will be to the industry. When we decided to do that record, it was Michael’s second album after Off the Wall. If you remember that period of time in the industry, the focus of the young people’s attention was away from pop music, and was moving toward video games and other things.
I will never forget the first day we started Thriller. We walked into the control room of Studio A at Westlake on Beverly Boulevard. Quincy [Jones] first, then Michael, then me, and Rod Temperton. Quincy turned to us and said, “We are here to save the music business.“ But music doesn’t work that way. You can’t throw a million dollars down on the table and say, “OK this new album has to sound a million dollars better than the last one”. Art doesn’t talk to money. But Quincy gave us the mandate to save the music business, and we made a tremendous impact.
Since those days, how has the technology of your work progressed?
Actually, I love what is happening with technology. When digital audio workstations first came into the picture, they were underdeveloped, or ahead of their time and not exactly what we wanted to use for making a musical statement. But now, I use it every single day. And remember, with analogue, you don’t just put any old analogue tape machine in the signal path and expect to get the sound of Thriller out of the loudspeakers.
When did you first embrace the digital revolution?
In a big way, it was when Quincy and I did the George Benson album, Give Me The Night. We were at Kendun Studios in Burbank, and I mixed that entire project to the Soundstream process. This was 1980 and it was totally new for the time. It’s a fantastic album, and it was my first real jump into the digital arena.
I had them bring the recording equipment to Burbank, then I had to go to Salt Lake City to edit and assemble, because that equipment was so huge. That part of the Soundstream process was not easily moveable. Then I brought it back to Hollywood and Kent Duncan mastered it. It was quite a revelation, that the sound of digital was so different from analogue. But if you go back and listen to that album, it sounds pretty good. It got some Grammys and sold a ton of records.
How have things progressed since then for you?
Well, I have totally embraced the digital process, as far as multitrack goes, especially now with the deeper bit rate and higher sampling frequencies. I recently did a project for a Brazilian artist in Rio di Janeiro, and did all of the mixing 24-bit, 96K and I am really happy with the results.
Do you still use any analogue tape?
I have my Ampex ATR in the control room at home, but I don’t think I’ve used it for a year. I’m afraid to move it out the door, but if I have a project I really care about, I am perfectly happy to do it 24/96K. But you must understand, I use the Universal Audio 2192 converters, which in my estimation are the supreme front end for the digital audio 2-channel workstation.
What about consoles over this past 25 years?
The console that I have in my studio at home is the same model Harrison that I did Thriller on, a 32C Series. That isn’t the console that I would use for everything, but sonically and in many other ways, that console is very satisfying. But here at Midnight Blue in Miami for this Jennifer Lopez album, I am using an 80 input SSL J Series, and that is about the best super-analogue desk today. It has the greatest combination of sound and tools aboard.
What are your favourite microphones and pre-amps?
Interesting question, because I was recently working with Jennifer Lopez, and I was in London recording the London Symphony Orchestra as part of her project. It’s an incredible orchestra, about 50 musicians, and we recorded at Angel Studios in London, a converted church. I called my pals at Neumann and told them I wanted to use three TLM-150s with my Decca Tree, and they immediately took care of it. I was talking with Wolfgang at Neumann, and he asked me if I remembered that it was his and mine 50th anniversary. In 1956, I bought two Neumann U-47s and that was the start of our relationship. One of those two mics was stolen when I was recording Thriller, but I still have the other one and I still absolutely adore it.
Do you use any other mics from the past?
I have a couple of AKG C-12s that I like a lot, but there is nothing that quite sounds like that U-47. Actually, there is a young man in Finland, Martin Kantola – I did a master class at the Sibelius Academy in Helsinki about 10 years ago, and I met this young man who really knows more about microphones than any one single guy I have ever met. He’s building a microphone, and I have one of those. I used that for Jennifer. Inside the mic is a classic U-47, but it sounds so good. Jennifer loved it. He calls it the NU-47, but I don’t think it’s for sale. Björk has one, I have one, and Martin has the only other one. It’s the most unbelievable mic I have every heard.
Do you use plug-in effects?
As far as I am concerned, 'Plug-in” is a dirty word. I have yet to hear a plug-in that sounds like the original device. To me, if the people that designed and made plug-ins had ears as good as their eyes the industry would be way ahead of where we are now.
Ok, so what about monitoring?
I have my Westlakes and they go with me everywhere. Quincy says that moving with me from studio to studio is like moving the Fifty Army. It takes 25 Anvil cases to move my speakers, mics, cables, and stuff. Even with the industry in the condition it is in today, I still get calls to do gigs with all my stuff, and it costs a fortune to move. In those cases are my Westlake speakers, and my Electocompaniet monitor amplifiers. I use an amplifier made in Norway, and I use the Westlakes that Glenn Phoenix designed and they are passive bi-amps. There is no electronic circuitry in the speaker. The monitor amps are connected directly to the drivers. And I use Monster Cable, which I love.
Do you carry reverbs with you?
Well, there are one or two that have stood the test of time that I have in my personal arsenal, that go with me. One is the EMT-250, and I have a 252 which is also a fantastic unit. Typically, the older EMT units are discrete, but not necessarily Class A. With the 252, I use the 250 software, so it’s like having two 250s, but one does sound a little different. I also have a Lexicon 480, and I have several custom programs in that. And I have a Lexicon 224 with me. One of my favorite reverbs is the AMS RMX.
Can you pick a few moments in the past 25 years that were especially memorable?
You know, my wife Bea spends a lot of time with me in the studio, and she also travels with me a lot. After working with Michael over the years, one of the most mind-blowing experiences is working in the studio and then going to see him in concert. Bea and I went with him to Japan, traveled all over with him, and we don’t know that Michael that gets up on the stage. We have never met him. It’s such an unusual thing. As a performing artist he is incomparable. When he steps onstage he becomes another person.
What recordings do use for reference, to gauge the environment when you go into a new place?
Well, I have my own speakers. I usually go back to some of the old recordings I did in 1959 and 1960 with Count Basie. And I am also so enthusiastic about a project I just did with the Brazilian lady, Eliana Elias, on RCA. I will be taking that record around with me.
Who would you like to work with in the future?
Well, I feel like I have worked with just about everybody I have wanted to. But there is a musician and performer I like a lot: Lenny Kravitz. I have met him, and we’ve talked and tried to get our schedules together, but it hasn’t worked out yet.
What do you think about the Internet and downloading?
Well, I love iTunes, and as long as it is done properly and the music is paid for, I think it is perfectly all right.
What about Surround sound?
Well, I hate Surround. Actually, I should say I hate what has been done in Surround, because I think it is a big, bad reflection on our industry. I am not proud of the way that the way our industry has looked at Surround. It is a way to add huge billing to a project that is already over budget. And most projects have no need to be done in Surround anyway. When Surround catches up with the music, and can be done with the entertainment level in focus – not the gimmick level – then I think we might have something to work with and for. But right now, I think Surround is a whole lot of do-do.
As you look back, what stands out in your memory?
Quincy and I discuss this. Where my family comes from in Scandinavia, a major goal is retirement. They all say, Uncle Bruce, when are you going to retire. Quincy and I have an answer for that. All our lives we have lived out the goal of retirement: to travel around and do what you want all day. That’s all I’ve ever done. Why should I change? I do the projects that I want to do, at my own pace, as I want to do them. I don’t see any need to do anything different.
Do you have a favourite motto?
Well, I do some teaching, like the master Class at UCLA, and other colleges. I have a motto and it is short and sweet. “Music First.” That’s all you need to know.
Any advice for the up and coming producers and engineers?
First of all, be serious and you have to love what you do for the sake of the music. If your goal is a financial one, you are going to fail horribly. If your goal is to make the best music that you can, to the best of your ability, you are going to succeed heroically. And that’s the way it works. |
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