|
Santa Maria, California, Wednesday, May 11, 2005
The defense called Macaulay Culkin to the stand. Mr. Culkin went to the witness stand, faced the clerk, raised his right hand, and was sworn in.
Mr. Mesereau began his examination by asking about Mr. Culkin’s career. It was established that he is an actor from New York. He summarized his career by stating that he started working at the age of four doing stage and things like that. He then did a number of films. He worked until he was about 14, took a break, and started working again recently.
When asked about Michael Jackson, Mr. Culkin stated that Mr. Jackson is a friend of his and that they first met when Mr. Culkin was 9 or 10 years old. It was established that they met when Mr. Jackson just called him out of the blue one time and said, "This is Michael Jackson." Mr. Culkin stated, “And this is after the "Home Alone" movie had come out. So it's kind of like -- it was like, "I think I understand kind of what's happening, and I'd like to get together and talk."
Mr. Culkin stated that they are still friends and last spoke about three days prior.
Mr. Mesereau asked about the first time Mr. Culkin visited Neverland. Mr. Culkin explained, “It was after he had called that first time. He invited us, me and my family, over there to hang out. I think the first trip we were there for about three or four days. It was me and my younger brother and my mother and my father.”
When asked how many times he visited Neverland, Mr. Culkin said, “More than a dozen times from basically when I was about 10 to when I was about 14 years old. And I kind of took a break there for a while, just didn't go. I just never found myself on the West Coast, so I never found myself going there. And then went a couple times between when I was 17 and now, just a handful of times.” He stated his last visit to Neverland was, “About a year or so ago.”
EXCERPT FROM TRIAL TRANSCRIPT:
Mr. Mesereau: Okay. And you maintained a friendship with Mr. Jackson all those years?
Mr. Culkin: Yes, I have.
Mr. Mesereau: Okay. Do you consider him a close friend of yours?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: Let's go to your first trip to Neverland, okay? You say you were there with your family. Who in your family are you referring to?
Mr. Culkin: My brother Kieran and my mother and my father.
Mr. Mesereau: Okay. And what do you remember about your first visit to Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: It was big. It was -- it was -- I had never seen anything like it before. Especially considering it was someone's house. It was – you know, it wasn't exactly what I was expecting. Because you're nine or ten years old, you don't really pay attention to what people say or whatever, you know, those kind of things. So -- you know, everything is lit up. And he was a nice guy. I remember he laughed because I referred to all the Ninja Turtles by their first names, and things like that. And so it was one of those kind of things where it was just very -- it was very casual, really.
Mr. Mesereau: What are some of the things you did at Neverland with your family?
Mr. Culkin: Saw a movie in the movie theater. Rode on the amusement park rides, and -- just everything, you know. Just used the facilities, basically.
Mr. Mesereau: How many times do you think your family has been to Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: About the same amount of times. When I was younger they were there virtually every time I was there.
Mr. Mesereau: And you have a sister?
Mr. Culkin: I have two of them.
Mr. Mesereau: Did they visit Neverland as well?
Mr. Culkin: Yes, they have.
Mr. Mesereau: How many times do you think they've been to Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: Not as often, just because they were really never on the West Coast as often as I was. But whenever they were in town and I was going, they would love to go as well.
Mr. Mesereau: Have you seen Michael Jackson outside of Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: Where have you seen him?
Mr. Culkin: Whenever. I'd be staying at a hotel and he'd come and pick me and my brothers up, and we'd sneak into a movie theater like in the middle of the night -- in the middle of, like, you know, a movie, because that was the only way you could really see an actual movie in an actual movie theater with him. Just a number of occasions.
Mr. Mesereau: Have you seen Michael in New York?
Mr. Culkin: Yes, I have.
Mr. Mesereau: Okay. How many times, do you think?
Mr. Culkin: Handful of times. Four times. Five times. Something like that.
Mr. Mesereau: How about in Los Angeles?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, in the City of Los Angeles, too.
Mr. Mesereau: Other than Neverland, New York and Los Angeles, have you seen Michael Jackson anywhere else?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah. He was in London when I was out there doing a play. And he was out there for, I don't know, maybe a week or so. We hung out two times, three times.
Mr. Mesereau: Now, in London, what did you do with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Hung out with his kids. We had -- we had a dinner with a group of people, most of whom I had not met before, but just -- it was a nice, casual, sit-down dinner. And just saw the kids, things like that. I always liked seeing the kids.
Mr. Mesereau: And you're talking about Michael's kids?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: And what have you done with Michael Jackson in Los Angeles?
Mr. Culkin: Same kind of thing. We used to hang out. He had an apartment there that was actually in the city, so we'd go visit there. Just kind of – it was a little more convenient, and it was smaller. It wasn't as, you know, far away. It wasn't the daunting three-hour drive, you know. When you're ten years old, that's an awfully long drive to get out there. So sometimes when he was in the city, we would just hang out at his apartment.
Mr. Mesereau: Now, you've spoken to him on the phone through the years, correct?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Mesereau: How many times do you think you've spoken to him on the phone?
Mr. Culkin: I couldn't really count. Couldn't say. Over 100 times probably.
Mr. Mesereau: And have you called Michael Jackson yourself?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Mesereau: Has he called you?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Mesereau: You're aware of the allegations in this case, correct?
Mr. Culkin: Uh-huh. Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: You heard about some of the allegations about whether or not Mr. Jackson improperly ever touched you, right?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: Did Mr. Jackson ever molest you?
Mr. Culkin: Never.
Mr. Mesereau: Did Mr. Jackson ever improperly touch you?
Mr. Culkin: Absolutely not.
Mr. Mesereau: Has Mr. Jackson ever touched you in any sexual type of way?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Mesereau: Has he ever touched you in any offensive way?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Mesereau: What do you think of these allegations?
Mr. Culkin: I think they're absolutely ridiculous.
Mr. Mesereau: When did you first learn that these prosecutors were claiming that you were improperly touched?
Mr. Culkin: I -- somebody called me up and said, "You should probably check out CNN, because they're saying something about you."
Mr. Mesereau: And did you check it out?
Mr. Culkin: Yes, I did.
Mr. Mesereau: And what did you learn?
Mr. Culkin: I learned that it was a former cook had done something to me, and there was something about a maid or something like that. It was just one of those things where I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that, first of all, these people were saying these things or -- let alone that it was out there and people were thinking that kind of thing about me. And at the same time it was amazing to me that they -- that nobody approached me and even asked me whether or not the allegations were true. They kind of just were -- threw it out there just like -- they didn't even -- they didn't even double-check it basically. I mean, even if they assumed that they knew the answer, what got me was that they didn't even ask.
Mr. Mesereau: Now, are you saying these prosecutors never tried to reach you to ask you your position on this?
Mr. Culkin: No, they didn't.
Mr. Mesereau: Do you know if any police officer from Santa Barbara has ever tried to call you to see what the truth is?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Mesereau: Have you ever been to Michael Jackson's bedroom?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: And when did you first see Michael Jackson's bedroom?
Mr. Culkin: I think it was probably the first trip.
Mr. Mesereau: And did you go in there with your family?
Mr. Culkin: Uh-huh.
Mr. Mesereau: And what do you recall about Michael Jackson's room?
Mr. Culkin: It was large. It was -- it was a very comfortable place. He had paintings and all those kind of things on the wall. It was -- you know, it had two bedrooms and it was two stories high. It was -- you know, it's not what you normally associate with a bedroom.
Mr. Mesereau: And have you and your family stayed in that room?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: How many times, do you think?
Mr. Culkin: Handful of times.
Mr. Mesereau: How about your sister?
Mr. Culkin: Not as often.
Mr. Mesereau: How about your brother?
Mr. Culkin: Whenever I was there, my little brother was kind of always tagging along with me, so he was usually anywhere I was.
Mr. Mesereau: Where else at Neverland have you been with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Everywhere, essentially. We were always hanging out together, just like I said, and using all the facilities; the zoo, the arcade, or the movie theater, wherever.
Mr. Mesereau: Have you spent a lot of time at Neverland with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: Have you played at Neverland with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: What have you done with him?
Mr. Culkin: Like I said, we used everything. We'd play video games. We would fill up a bunch of water balloons and toss them around. Just things like that. It was just good old fun, just like a bunch of, like, kids basically having a good time.
Mr. Mesereau: Have you been to the arcade with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Mesereau: Do you recall playing any games with Michael Jackson in the arcade?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, sure.
Mr. Mesereau: And do you recall this going on anytime of day?
Mr. Culkin: Playing video games? Yeah. Absolutely.
Mr. Mesereau: What time of day would you play video games with Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Anytime. You know, sometimes -- I mean, sometimes I fell asleep in the arcade and I'd wake up and just start playing, you know. It was one of those kind of things where, you know, you'd be up half the night, you'd be -- you know, you'd be kind of in and out of all these places. So it was never really any kind of specific time that we spent there, but it was, you know, kind of just -- we were always kind of just either there, or at the theater, or just driving around in the golf carts, or something like that.
Mr. Mesereau: Do you recall your family being with you in the arcade?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: Do you recall them being with you in the zoo?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: Do you recall your family being with you in the theater?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Mesereau: Did you ever get the feeling that your family was being excluded from anything you did at Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: Absolutely not.
Mr. Mesereau: Did you ever think Mr. Jackson was somehow trying to exclude your family from his room?
Mr. Culkin: Absolutely not. It was a real open-door policy just with the entire ranch.
Mr. Mesereau: Okay. That applied to your family as well as you?
Mr. Culkin: Yes, everyone.
Mr. Mesereau: Okay. Have you ever traveled with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: Where did you travel to?
Mr. Culkin: We took a trip, I was going with some family friends. We were going to Bermuda, and I said, "We're going." And he said, "Is it all right if I tag along?" And I said, "Yes." So we did that. After that, we ended up in -- we decided to fly back to Orlando, because the family friends that I was traveling with, that's where they were from. So we went there, went to Disney World for a day or two, and ended up flying back with my family. And I've also -- he was doing a charity event a couple years back in Washington D.C., and so I -- I hitched a ride with him on his plane back to New York.
Mr. Mesereau: And did Mr. Jackson ever do anything improper to you on any of these trips?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Mesereau: Ever see him do anything that you found disturbing on any of these trips?
Mr. Culkin: Absolutely not.
Mr. Mesereau: Has Mr. Jackson ever hugged you?
Mr. Culkin: Sure.
Mr. Mesereau: Have you ever hugged him?
Mr. Culkin: Absolutely.
Mr. Mesereau: Were you ever suspicious of any of these hugs as being something sexual in nature?
Mr. Culkin: No, it was always very casual. It was just the way I hug any of my friends.
Mr. Mesereau: Did you ever see Mr. Jackson hug your sister?
Mr. Culkin: Sure.
Mr. Mesereau: Were you ever suspicious of his hugging your sister?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Mesereau: Ever see Mr. Jackson hug your brothers?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Mesereau: Ever see them hug him?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Mesereau: Did you ever think anything suspicious was going on when your brothers hugged Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: No, it was always just how you kind of greeted him, greeted almost anyone basically that you were close with.
Mr. Mesereau: Do you know someone named Wade Robson?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, I've met him.
Mr. Mesereau: Where did you meet him?
Mr. Culkin: When we were shooting the "Black and White" video. He was one of the dancing kids. So I met him and hung out with him after the shoot.
Mr. Mesereau: Did you ever see Mr. Jackson do anything improper with Wade Robson?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Mesereau: Have you been in contact with Wade Robson?
Mr. Culkin: No, I haven't.
Mr. Mesereau: When's the last time you think you talked to him?
Mr. Culkin: Was back then when we hung out, when I was10 or 11 years old.
Mr. Mesereau: Do you know someone named Brett Barnes?
Mr. Culkin: I think so. But I'm not really sure if I do. I mean, I've heard the name before, and I've -- I think it's the same Brett that I know, but I couldn't be 100 percent.
Mr. Mesereau: And if the person you think is Brett Barnes, do you recall seeing him at Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: If it -- yeah, if it's the person I'm thinking of, yeah.
Mr. Mesereau: Did you ever see Mr. Jackson do anything improper with him?
Mr. Culkin: No, I've never seen him do anything improper with anybody.
Mr. Mesereau: Okay. No further questions.
END TRIAL TRANSCRIPT EXCERPT.
At this time Mr. Zonen began his cross examination of Mr. Culkin.
Mr. Zonen asked if it were true that both in 1993 and in 2003 law enforcement attempted to gain access to him to have an interview with him and on both occasions his representatives refused to allow him to have an interview with law enforcement.
Mr. Culkin stated that he was not aware of any effort by law enforcement either in 1993 or currently within the last couple years to be able to get an interview with him.
Mr. Zonen then asked if Mr. Culkin talked to anybody from the defense prior to coming into court today. He stated that he spoke to Mr. Mesereau on the previous day, that he went to his office for about a half an hour to figure out where he was staying and that type of thing. He stated he did not give Mr. Mesereau an interview, only that he was walked through the procedure, what he would be going through for the day. He did not talk to him about anything substantive, any of the issues about his association with Michael Jackson.
Mr. Zonen asked if Mr. Culkin was aware that an attorney of his had contacted them and told them that he would not be giving a statement to either side. Mr. Culkin replied, “I think so, yes.” When asked if that was his decision or his lawyer's decision, Mr. Culkin said, “I think I just took what he had to say and agreed with it.”
TRIAL TRANSCRIPT EXCERPT:
Mr. Zonen: So you decided all along you were not going to talk to either side?
Mr. Culkin: Essentially, yeah. I wasn't really planning on testifying.
Mr. Zonen: But you're complaining that we didn't interview you?
Mr. Culkin: I'm just saying it was something that – I said I kind of just -- all of a sudden I turn on the television or look on the Internet and there was those things out there, and it was just surprising to me.
Mr. Zonen: Mr. Culkin, are you completely unaware of the fact that law enforcement has made a number of efforts to gain access to you to talk to you?
Mr. Culkin: Like I said, I'm unaware.
Mr. Zonen: No one among your representatives has ever gone to you and said, "Law enforcement would like to speak with you"?
Mr. Culkin: Never.
Mr. Zonen: How old were you when you went to Bermuda?
Mr. Culkin: I must have been around 11 years old.
Mr. Zonen: How long had you known Michael Jackson at that time?
Mr. Culkin: About a year or two.
Mr. Zonen: That trip was with the Goldstein family; is that right?
Mr. Culkin: That sounds right.
Mr. Zonen: That sounds right? You don't recall?
Mr. Culkin: It was 15 years ago.
Mr. Zonen: You don't recall with whom you went to Bermuda?
Mr. Culkin: I remember it was my friend Brock and his family.
Mr. Zonen: All right. And Brock's last name is Goldstein; is that correct?
Mr. Culkin: That sounds right. Like I said, it was 15 years ago. And it wasn't -- I haven't really talked to them since then almost.
Mr. Zonen: And how is it that Mr. Jackson ended up going to Bermuda with you?
Mr. Culkin: I told him I was going, and he seemed excited. And I said, "Would you like to come along?" So he said, "Let's go to Bermuda."
Mr. Zonen: You're an 11-year-old child, but you felt it was okay to invite Mr. Jackson to attend a trip that you were going on with another family?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah. I mean, and they were fine with it, from what I remember.
Mr. Zonen: Well, did you consult with them before you invited Mr. Jackson to come along?
Mr. Culkin: To be honest, I don't remember.
Mr. Zonen: All right. The Goldsteins have a child who at that time had appeared in a movie with you; is that right?
Mr. Culkin: I don't remember him being in the film. He lived in the same community as me when I was shooting the film "My Girl." And it was just kind of a community like -- it was almost -- it wasn't exactly a gated community, but it was off of, like, the Universal lot. And he was just a neighborhood kid that I got friendly with.
Mr. Zonen: You became friendly with Brock during the course of the filming of that film; is that right?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Zonen: And you used to spend time at their home?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Zonen: And you would spend the night at their home as well; is that correct?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Zonen: And when they were planning a trip to Bermuda, they invited you to come along?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Zonen: They consulted with your parents in advance and your parents agreed; is that true?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Zonen: All right. You then invited Mr. Jackson to come along as well; is that correct?
Mr. Culkin: From what I remember, yes.
Mr. Zonen: All right. You did not tell either Mr. or Mrs. Goldstein that you had done that in advance of that trip?
Mr. Culkin: Like I said, I don't remember that.
Mr. Zonen: Now, you invited Mr. Jackson or Mr. Jackson invited himself? Which was it?
Mr. Culkin: To be honest, I don't remember. I do – I think it was something like, "I'm going to Bermuda." You know, "We're going to have a good time." I don't remember how exactly it went over, whether it was, like, "Oh, is it all right if I come?" Or if it was, "Why don't you come along." I honestly don't remember.
Mr. Zonen: Did Mr. Jackson travel with you to Bermuda or did he meet you there?
Mr. Culkin: I honestly don't remember.
Mr. Zonen: When he got there, he gave you a watch, did he not?
Mr. Culkin: I think that's when he gave me the watch.
Mr. Zonen: It was a Rolex?
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Zonen: He gave a Rolex to an 11-year-old child?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah. But it wasn't -- it wasn't anything all that crazy to me. I didn't see it as anything like that. I was not a person without means, so it wasn't anything that was all that awe-inspiring. I mean, my father had a Rolex. It was that kind of thing.
Mr. Zonen: Did he give a Rolex to Brock as well?
Mr. Culkin: I don't remember.
Mr. Zonen: Did he give any gift to Brock?
Mr. Culkin: I don't remember.
Mr. Zonen: Did they tell you that they felt that they were being excluded from activities with you?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I remember.
Mr. Zonen: Did they complain to you at all about the fact that Mr. Jackson was dominating your time?
Mr. Culkin: I don't -- not that I remember.
Mr. Zonen: Did Mr. Jackson suggest to you that you go with him to locations in Bermuda without the Goldstein family?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I remember. Like I said, this whole trip was 15 years ago. And I was nine or ten years old. And if I knew I was going to have to be testifying about it, I'm sure I would have made an effort to remember.
Mr. Zonen: How old are you now?
Mr. Culkin: I'm 24.
Mr. Zonen: You're 24. And you're saying it's 15 years ago?
Mr. Culkin: 13, 14, 15 years ago. I honestly don't remember exactly how old I was.
Mr. Zonen: You were somewhere between nine and --
Mr. Culkin: 11, yes.
Mr. Zonen: And you met him when you were nine?
Mr. Culkin: I think that's about right, yeah. So it must have been when I was about 10 or 11.
Mr. Zonen: You had known him for at least a year at the time you went on that trip?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, for at least a year.
Mr. Zonen: All right. And then the question about whether you have a recollection about Mr. Jackson asking you to go with him to locations without the Goldstein family, at this time you do not recall the answer to that question?
Mr. Culkin: I don't, no.
Mr. Zonen: Didn't Mrs. Goldstein tell you it was not okay for you to go away with Mr. Jackson by yourself without somebody from the Goldstein family being there? Didn't she tell you that?
Mr. Culkin: Gosh, I don't remember those kind of -- those kind of details. I remember -- I could tell you the hotel room, what it looked like. I could tell you, you know, if it was on the beach, and things like that. But I can't tell you -- I don't remember a lot of these specific details, because there just wasn't anything that eventful going on, besides that.
Mr. Zonen: But you don't remember her telling you specifically that she was not going to allow you to go places with Mr. Jackson by yourself unaccompanied by another member of their family?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I remember, but I don't know.
Mr. Zonen: How long did you stay in Bermuda?
Mr. Culkin: I don't know. It could have been, like, about a week or so.
Mr. Zonen: Did Mr. Jackson stay with you in Bermuda the entire time?
Mr. Culkin: From what I remember, he was there the whole time.
Mr. Zonen: Was he there with any other adult companionship?
Mr. Culkin: How do you mean?
Mr. Zonen: Did he come with another person, man or woman, a companion?
Mr. Culkin: I don't think so, no. I mean, he might have had some security with him but I'm not sure.
Mr. Zonen: Other than security, did he come with a man or woman with whom he intended to travel purely for companionship?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: Was it your belief that he was there to visit with you?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, to visit, and spend some time in Bermuda.
Mr. Zonen: All right. And to spend a week or more with a ten-year-old child?
Mr. Culkin: To spend a week or more with me, yes.
Mr. Zonen: And had he ever done that prior to that date, gone traveling with you?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I remember, no. We never really -- I mean, besides when he was in Los Angeles, and I was, he'd come visit me. But we never really went on, like, trips.
Mr. Zonen: Do you still have that Rolex watch?
Mr. Culkin: I think I do have it somewhere, yes.
Mr. Zonen: You don't wear it any longer?
Mr. Culkin: It doesn't fit.
Mr. Zonen: It's a woman's watch; is that correct?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I know of. It was small. It was a small watch, and the band is very small on it, so like I said, it doesn't really fit me anymore.
Mr. Zonen: Did Mr. or Mrs. Goldstein comment to you about anything at the time that watch was given to you?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I remember.
Mr. Zonen: Had you taken any trips with Mr. Jackson prior to the Bermuda trip?
Mr. Culkin: No, we never really took any, like, trips or vacations, really. Like I said, it was something -- when I was in Los Angeles we would hang out. Or if he was in New York, we'd get together.
Mr. Zonen: Did you travel with Mr. Jackson anywhere prior to the Bermuda trip where you stayed overnight in a hotel with Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: I don't think so, no.
Mr. Zonen: Prior to the Bermuda trip, did you travel anywhere with Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I remember. Not like we would be somewhere and then travel somewhere else, besides being in Los Angeles or going to Neverland or when he was in New York, that kind of thing.
Mr. Zonen: In Bermuda, did you change hotels because of Mr. Jackson's arrival?
Mr. Culkin: I don't remember, but probably, because we were staying in a larger hotel with -- I think it was just a larger hotel, kind of beyond the means of what we were kind of expecting to stay in.
Mr. Zonen: Prior to staying in Bermuda, had you ever spent the night alone with Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: How do you mean "spend the night"?
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever share a bed with Mr. Jackson prior to going to Bermuda?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, I mean, I'd fallen asleep in the same bed as him.
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever do that, fall asleep in the same bed as Mr. Jackson prior to going to Bermuda where none of your brothers or sisters were present?
Mr. Culkin: It's possible. But like I said, usually my brother was tagging along with me. But I fell asleep basically everywhere in that ranch, or anywhere else when I was hanging out with him. I would just flop down on the floor half the time.
Mr. Zonen: Mr. Culkin, the question was, did you ever share a bed with Mr. Jackson -- the two of you by yourself, prior to going to Bermuda?
Mr. Culkin: If I remember correctly, probably, yes.
Mr. Zonen: On approximately how many occasions did you and Mr. Jackson share a bed the entire night prior to going to Bermuda?
Mr. Culkin: A handful of times.
Mr. Zonen: Was it your expectation that in Bermuda that you would be sleeping with Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Excuse me?
Mr. Zonen: Was it your expectation that while in Bermuda you would be sharing a hotel room and a bed with Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: I don't remember it being like an expectation. It was -- I may have fallen asleep in the same bed with him there, but it was just as likely I'd fall asleep on the couch watching T.V.
Mr. Zonen: You might have fallen asleep in the bed with Mr. Jackson in Bermuda?
Mr. Culkin: I might have fallen asleep on his bed, yes.
Mr. Zonen: Now, prior to going to Bermuda, you said it may have been a handful of times. What is a handful of times? About five or six?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, like half dozen times.
Mr. Zonen: Half dozen times?
Mr. Culkin: Ten at most.
Mr. Zonen: Ten at most? This is prior to going to Bermuda.
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, I'd known him for about a year, and hung out, I'd been to his ranch about four or five times, I think, within that year.
Mr. Zonen: So you think you might have shared his bed with him six to ten times prior to going to Bermuda; is that the case?
Mr. Culkin: It's possible.
Mr. Zonen: All right. On how many of those occasions were you there by yourself without any sibling, alone, without any sibling at all?
Mr. Culkin: I don't really remember. But most every time I was there, I was there with my siblings. And most every time I was with my siblings, they were, like, with me the entire time.
Mr. Zonen: All right. How many times do you think prior to going to Bermuda did you share a bed with Mr. Jackson by yourself?
Mr. Culkin: I honestly don't remember. I couldn't say.
Mr. Zonen: How about either of your sisters? Did they ever share a bed with Mr. Jackson by themselves?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I know of, no.
Mr. Zonen: That never happened, did it?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I know of.
Mr. Zonen: In fact, none of your brothers ever shared a bed with Mr. Jackson by themselves either, did they?
Mr. Culkin: I'm not sure if that's true. But I don't – I don't know. Sometimes I would -- I wouldn't fall asleep. I'd be up for a little bit longer and, you know, my brothers would fall asleep who knows where.
Mr. Zonen: But there were occasions when you went to Neverland without your siblings and without your parents; is that right?
Mr. Culkin: I think I took one trip there where I arrived there before my family did, for like a day or two, and then they showed up.
Mr. Zonen: Up until the age of, say, 14, are you telling us every time you went to Neverland you were with your parents and your siblings?
Mr. Culkin: In some kind of combination of siblings and parents, yes.
Mr. Zonen: You never once went to Neverland by yourself?
Mr. Culkin: Like I said, I think I showed up -- I showed up there once, and it was like a day or two and then my family met me there.
Mr. Zonen: Your home is New York; is that right?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, I'm born and raised in New York.
Mr. Zonen: You never lived in Los Angeles?
Mr. Culkin: Not full time, no.
Mr. Zonen: All right. Up until the age of 14, did you ever live in Los Angeles, even part time?
Mr. Culkin: I did some work in Los Angeles, but besides that, I'm from New York.
Mr. Zonen: Where else did you go besides New York, London and Neverland with Michael Jackson, and Bermuda? What other places did you and he travel to?
Mr. Culkin: We went to Orlando from Bermuda because that's where Brock and his family lived.
Mr. Zonen: Okay. So during that trip, you went to Orlando?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, it was the same trip. We swung by there, and then from there I went home.
Mr. Zonen: How often did you go to Neverland between the ages of 10 and 14?
Mr. Culkin: A dozen times, maybe more.
Mr. Zonen: All those occasions did you sleep in his room?
Mr. Culkin: At some point or another I think I probably -- I might have ended up sleeping in his room, but I couldn't really say that I slept there every single time that I was there or anything like that.
Mr. Zonen: Would it be safe to say that 90 percent of the time you stayed there?
Mr. Culkin: In his bedroom?
Mr. Zonen: Yes.
Mr. Culkin: I don't think it would be 90 percent. It would be –
Mr. Zonen: 80 percent?
Mr. Culkin: It would be -- I slept in his room about as often as I fell asleep anywhere. Like, I fell asleep -- I would flop down -- we'd fall asleep in the movie theater. He has beds in the movie theater. I'd flop down and fall asleep there. I've fallen asleep in the video game machines before. I mean, I've -- I would go and play there basically until I'd just run myself out, and I would just flop down wherever I needed to.
Mr. Zonen: And you'd be pretty exhausted and go fast asleep; is that right?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, I mean, that would happen. I'd wear myself out and fall asleep, just like any kid would.
Mr. Zonen: So your question about -- the question that you answered about Mr. Jackson never molesting you, your answer more accurately is he never did while you were awake; is that correct?
Mr. Culkin: Could you repeat that?
Mr. Zonen: Well, your answer to Mr. Mesereau's question about he never molested you.
Mr. Culkin: Yes.
Mr. Zonen: Your answer more accurately is he never molested you, to your knowledge, while you were awake; is that true?
Mr. Culkin: As far as I know, he's never molested me.
Mr. Zonen: While you were asleep as a nine-year-old kid who had run himself ragged, you wouldn't know what happened while you were asleep, right?
Mr. Culkin: I find that unlikely.
Mr. Zonen: Well, but you just told us that sometimes you'd be so exhausted after a day of playing you'd fall asleep on a machine.
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, but I think I'd realize if something like that was happening to me.
Mr. Zonen: Yes? And on many of those occasions, you would fall asleep in his bed?
Mr. Culkin: It would happen.
Mr. Zonen: So you would have no recollection at all, of all of your visits to Neverland, of ever actually making arrangements to simply go to bed like anybody else, putting on pajamas and crawling into bed and turning out the light?
Mr. Culkin: I never really wore pajamas. But at the same time, it was something like -- I mean,
occasionally, yeah, I'd have to -- like, we'd have to wake up early in the morning because – for whatever reason, because I'd have to -- because we were going to be leaving in the morning or whatever. I mean, sometimes I was put on a schedule.
Mr. Zonen: Mr. Culkin, as a nine-year-old child, what did you wear to bed?
Mr. Culkin: I wore my clothes.
Mr. Zonen: You would just wear whatever you were wearing during the day?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Zonen: Every single night?
Mr. Culkin: Up until I was about 17 years old. That's when I kind of discovered what pajamas were.
Mr. Zonen: And you did that at home as well?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Zonen: Whatever you were wearing?
Mr. Culkin: I always fell asleep in jeans and socks and a T-shirt.
Mr. Zonen: All right. So whenever you were at Neverland, you would crawl into bed in jeans and socks and a T-shirt?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah.
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever stay at his condo in Los Angeles?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, I think I've spent the night there.
Mr. Zonen: With your parents?
Mr. Culkin: I'm not sure if they were there. I know they'd been there before, but I'm not sure if they ever spent the night there.
Mr. Zonen: You only spent one night in his condo in Los Angeles? It's in West L.A.; is that right?
Mr. Culkin: I don't really remember exactly where it was. I was always either -- we'd just kind of go there, and it was very secluded. It was in a garage and things like that. That's where the entrance was.
Mr. Zonen: All right. There was a hotel across the street; is that correct?
Mr. Culkin: I don't really remember.
Mr. Zonen: Were there ever occasions where your parents stayed in the hotel across the street and you stayed at the condo by yourself with Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: I don't really remember. I don't think so.
Mr. Zonen: But that's possible?
Mr. Culkin: I'm not sure if they stayed in the hotel across the street or at another hotel. I don't know.
Mr. Zonen: What is your date of birth?
Mr. Culkin: August 26th, 1980.
Mr. Zonen: And you think when you first started coming to Neverland you were nine years old, that would have been 1989?
Mr. Culkin: About nine or ten years old, so it was probably '90 or '91, like -- just like -- it was after -- it was after the "Home Alone" movie came out.
Mr. Zonen: How old were you when you stopped sleeping in bed with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Well, like I said, I stopped going there just because I had really -- I had never really found myself going to Los Angeles or anything like that. So I didn't really come back again until I was about 17.
Mr. Zonen: The question was, when did you stop sleeping –
Mr. Culkin: I know. I'm getting there. And so when I got -- when I started coming back again, I found myself just not sleeping in bed. And I've always kind of fell asleep in the guest units ever since then.
Mr. Zonen: Why didn't you stay with Mr. Jackson in his room?
Mr. Culkin: Because I enjoyed my privacy a little bit more.
Mr. Zonen: All right. So is it safe to say that up until and through your 13th year, you stayed with Mr. Jackson in his room?
Mr. Culkin: On occasion –
Mr. Zonen: More frequent --
Mr. Culkin: On occasion I'd fall asleep there or wherever. It wasn't really like a thing to, like, "Let's go to sleep in a particular place." On occasion I'd end up falling asleep there. I'd fall asleep anywhere.
Mr. Zonen: After you first met Mr. Jackson, did he telephone you a lot?
Mr. Culkin: We talked on the phone a good amount.
Mr. Zonen: And sometimes those telephone calls would go two or three hours, wouldn't they?
Mr. Culkin: Sometimes. I guess. Yeah.
Mr. Zonen: Sometimes those telephone calls were in the middle of the night, weren't they?
Mr. Culkin: Not really. I was in school. But sometimes it would be in the later side.
Mr. Zonen: Did he express affection toward you during those telephone calls?
Mr. Culkin: How do you mean "affection"?
Mr. Zonen: Did he tell you how close he felt to you?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, we had a really close relationship because we had this understanding of one another, because one day I was –
Mr. Zonen: I'll object as exceeding the scope of the question, Your Honor. Nonresponsive.
Mr. Mesereau: Objection, Your Honor, he's cutting off the witness.
The Court: The objection is overruled. The question was, "Did he tell you how close he felt to you?"
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, and I'm trying to explain --
The Court: You don't need to explain.
Mr. Culkin: Okay. I understand. Yeah, we were close.
The Court: Next question.
Mr. Zonen: Did he tell you that he had thought of you like family?
Mr. Culkin: Yes. From what I remember.
Mr. Zonen: Did he start telling you about seeing you as family early on in your relationship with him?
Mr. Culkin: I don't know how far into the relation – or friendship it was, that we started talking about how close we felt. But it was definitely something where we understood each other early on.
Mr. Zonen: Even when you were nine years old?
Mr. Culkin: Because of circumstances, yes.
Mr. Zonen: Did he give gifts to your parents?
Mr. Culkin: I think so. But I honestly don't remember. This is a while ago. But he was -- he was very generous. He always gave gifts to everybody.
Mr. Zonen: Do you remember what gifts he gave to your mother?
Mr. Culkin: Not offhand, no.
Mr. Zonen: Do you remember what gifts he gave to your father?
Mr. Culkin: Not offhand.
Mr. Zonen: Did you travel with Mr. Jackson to Las Vegas?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: Did you travel with Mr. Jackson to Europe?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: Did you travel with Mr. Jackson to South America?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever stay at Neverland while Jordie Chandler was there?
Mr. Culkin: I don't know. I'm not sure if I have. I'm not sure if I know who Jordie Chandler is.
Mr. Zonen: Were you ever introduced to Jordie Chandler?
Mr. Culkin: I couldn't say. I met handfuls of people kind of going in and out. There was always kind of a revolving door of staff and of people kind of coming in. Sometimes there would be guests there that I had never really met before or things like that.
Mr. Zonen: Were you ever in Mr. -- in Mr. Jackson's bedroom overnight while another boy was present in that room, other than your brothers?
Mr. Culkin: On occasion, the other kids there that -- like I said, some of them were introduce -- like, I was introduced to as, like, cousins or family friends and stuff like that. And they'd bring their kids there, and then -- same as me. They would -- they would play with me, and we'd fall asleep anywhere, sometimes his bedroom, sometimes in the theater, sometimes anywhere.
Mr. Zonen: All right. Do you know whether any of those boys who happened to fall asleep with you in his room, if any of those boys, any one of them, was Jordan Chandler?
Mr. Culkin: It was 15 years ago. I'm not sure if I remember the names.
Mr. Zonen: Are you aware of the allegations in 1993?
Mr. Culkin: Yes, I was.
Mr. Zonen: In 1993, were you aware of the allegations while they were going on?
Mr. Culkin: Michael had called me about a month or so, or maybe a couple of weeks before the allegations hit the press. And he let me know that some people were going to be saying something, and they were absolutely untrue, and, "Don't worry about it. I just need you to be my friend right now." And I said, "Absolutely."
Mr. Zonen: At the time that Mr. Jackson placed that phone call, did you know who Jordan Chandler was?
Mr. Culkin: I don't know. I'm not sure exactly who Jordan Chandler is, so I can't -- I can't say.
Mr. Zonen: But back in '93, there wasn't a face that went with that name? In other words, when he mentioned the name "Jordan Chandler," was there a face that automatically came to mind for you?
Mr. Culkin: I think I had met the accuser from '93 or '94, if that's who you're talking about. I had met him once or twice. But I don't remember his name, so --
Mr. Zonen: How about Jason Francia? Did you ever meet Jason Francia?
Mr. Culkin: I don't know. I can't remember. Like I say, this was -- this was, you know, 13 years ago, you know. 14 years ago. And it wasn't anything -- it was just sometimes there would be some kids there, you know.
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever spend a night in the same room with Brett Barnes at Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: I'm not sure if I remember Brett Barnes.
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever spend a night in the same room with Wade Robson?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: Wade Robson you remember?
Mr. Culkin: I remember him, yes, because he was a very good dancer. And I know him also because of what he's accomplished in his own career recently.
Mr. Zonen: So he's -- he has stayed in the United States and you're familiar with him?
Mr. Culkin: I am familiar with him. He had a T.V. show for a while.
Mr. Zonen: You don't have a recollection of spending a night with Wade Robson in the same room, Michael Jackson's room; is that correct?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I remember, no. I mean, we did hang out, the day, like, after the shoot, and we went to his condo in Los Angeles.
Mr. Zonen: How many nights did you spend with Michael Jackson alone in his room and in his bed between the ages of 9 and 14?
Mr. Culkin: How -- could you repeat that?
Mr. Zonen: How many nights do you believe you spent alone in Michael Jackson's room and in his bed, alone with Michael Jackson, between the ages of 9 and 14?
Mr. Culkin: It couldn't have been more than like – it was a handful of times. It couldn't have been more than, like, five times, four times.
Mr. Zonen: Sir, you told us it was a handful of times that did you that before you went to Bermuda and that was at age 10?
Mr. Culkin: Altogether -- like I said, I went a lot between the ages of about 10 and -- about 9 and 12, 9 and, like, 11. And then I found -- I never really worked a whole lot in Los Angeles. It was only when I was in town that I would go over there. And I worked -- I worked on two films out here when I was -- one when I was 12, the other one when I was 11 or so, or 10. And those are the times that I would go out there, and occasionally I would fall asleep in his room.
Mr. Zonen: All right. After age 10, from age 11 through 14, how many times do you think you went to Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: From 10 to 14? Like, six to eight times.
Mr. Zonen: Six to eight times doesn't necessarily mean six to eight nights, does it?
Mr. Culkin: No, I would -- sometimes I would stay for a weekend, sometimes it would be -- I'd try to get up there -- even if it was for a day, I'd go up there. But sometimes it would be, like, four days, sometimes five days.
Mr. Zonen: What's the longest you ever stayed at
The Court: Neverland?
Mr. Culkin: When I was -- I think I was 20, I stayed there for about, I don't know, 10 days, 14 days. And that was the longest trip I'd ever taken there.
Zonen: All right. Well, can I assume that at age 20 you were not sleeping with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: I don't think he was there on that trip. I kind of just said, "I need to relax. Is it okay if I use your house?" And he said, "Sure."
Mr. Zonen: Even if he was there --
Mr. Mesereau: Objection. He cut off the witness, Your Honor.
The Court: Sustained.
Mr. Mesereau: May the witness complete his answer?
The Court: Yes.
Mr. Culkin: No, I was just staying there by myself, and I'd just stay in the guest units, and it was just -- it was just that. He wasn't even there.
Mr. Zonen: Even at age 20, you wouldn't have been sleeping with him anyway, would you have?
Mr. Mesereau: Objection; calls for speculation.
The Court: Overruled. You may answer.
Mr. Culkin: Would you repeat the question?
Mr. Zonen: But even at age 20, you would not have been sleeping with him in any event; is that correct?
Mr. Culkin: Probably not. Like I said, you know, as you get older, you start enjoying your privacy and you start getting on more of a schedule. And I was falling asleep on -- I had more of a schedule going. I was basically going out there to write and things like that, and to relax.
Mr. Zonen: Probably not -- have you slept with Mr. Jackson since you turned 20?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: Were there ever any occasions that you spent a night in Mr. Jackson's room in the presence of another boy, not your brothers?
Mr. Culkin: Could you specify? So you're saying with another boy but not with my brothers or something like that?
Mr. Zonen: With another boy, not your brothers. In other words, did you ever –
Mr. Culkin: Like I said, yes.
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever spend a night in Mr. Jackson's bedroom with another boy, not your brothers?
Mr. Culkin: Sometimes. Sometimes, like I said, there would be kids there. They'd be introduced as cousins or something like that. And they would hang with us, just as much as anyone else would.
Mr. Zonen: Do you remember the names of any of them?
Mr. Culkin: Not offhand, no.
Mr. Zonen: Can you describe any of them?
Mr. Culkin: They were kids. They were -- you know, some of them had dark hair. Darker skin, that kind of thing.
Mr. Zonen: What is the oldest child who ever stayed with you in Michael Jackson's room for the night?
Mr. Culkin: I wouldn't remember. I mean, they were all about my age, maybe a little bit older.
Mr. Zonen: And you were 10 to 12?
Mr. Culkin: It wasn't -- what was that?
Mr. Zonen: You were 10 to 12 in that period of time, 10 to 13?
Mr. Culkin: Right around there, yeah. Whenever I was around, sometimes there would be other kids around. And, you know, it wasn't like we all, like, "Oh, it's time to go to bed. Let's huddle in." It's like, you know, you're chatting in bed, and the next thing you know you're asleep.
Mr. Zonen: But most of the occasions that you stayed at Michael Jackson's house was between the ages of 9 and 10; is that right?
Mr. Culkin: Most of the times that I went there?
Mr. Zonen: Yes.
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, just about. Probably that would be about right. When I first -- when I first went there, it was such an amazing place, that I decided to -- you know, any opportunity I had to go out there, I would go.
Mr. Zonen: And after the Bermuda trip, your visits to Neverland diminished? They were fewer?
Mr. Culkin: Not necessarily by choice. I just didn't really find myself out on the West Coast as often.
Mr. Zonen: Did Mr. Jackson ever take you on shopping sprees?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, we'd go shopping.
Mr. Zonen: Where?
Mr. Culkin: We used to do this thing where in the middle of the night -- not necessarily the middle of the night, but around, like, after the stores had closed, he would arrange for us to go to Toys-R-Us. And sometimes he wouldn't even arrange it. We would go there, and he'd literally knock on the door, and the janitor would drop his mop, and go, "What the heck?" and let us in. And then they'd -- you know, we'd go shopping basically at Toys-R-Us when the store was totally empty, because it's the only time that he could really go shopping like that.
Mr. Zonen: How many times did he do that with you?
Mr. Culkin: Oh, gosh. Like two times, three times --
Mr. Zonen: How old were you?
Mr. Culkin: -- something like that. About -- I think the first time we did it was, like, ten.
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever have a conversation with either of your parents about the propriety of your sharing a bed with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Did I ever have a conversation with him -- with them about what?
Mr. Zonen: Let me change that question. Did you ever have a conversation with your parents prior to the age of 13? In other words, 12 or younger. While you were 12 years of age or younger, did you ever have a conversation with either of your parents about whether or not you should be sharing a bed with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: No. They never really saw it as an issue.
Mr. Zonen: Did they know that you were sleeping in his bed?
Mr. Culkin: I assume so.
Mr. Zonen: You assume so?
Mr. Culkin: I can't tell you what they -- what they knew or didn't know or what they thought or didn't think.
Mr. Zonen: Can we assume from that your parents never came into the room while you were in bed with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: That's not true, no. Sometimes my father would wake us up, because he liked going horseback riding or something like that and, you know, things that I didn't necessarily enjoy as much as he did, but he would wake me up early in the morning to go horseback riding.
Mr. Zonen: And you would be in bed alone with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: Not always alone, no. And sometimes I wouldn't be always there. I would be wherever. But I knew they knew that I was in that room, and they knew I fell asleep there.
Mr. Zonen: Mr. Culkin –
Mr. Mesereau: Objection, he's cutting off the witness.
Mr. Zonen: The answer is nonresponsive to the question.
The Court: It's overruled. And you are cutting him off.
Mr. Culkin: Yeah, he knew that I was --
Mr. Zonen: There's no question pending.
Mr. Zonen: Mr. Culkin --
The Court: Well, just a minute. Let me take a minute here. You are getting kind of rushed here. And you are cutting the witness off. I'll just go back and take a look at this. Ask a new question, please.
Mr. Zonen: Did your father ever come into Michael Jackson's bedroom while you were in bed with Mr. Jackson alone?
Mr. Culkin: From what I remember, yeah.
Mr. Zonen: Did that happen more than once?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah. From I remember, it's -- I don't really remember all these kind of details, but I knew he knew I was staying there. So – and occasionally, I would be woken up to do something that he felt like doing.
Mr. Zonen: When was the first time your father walked into the room while you were in bed alone with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: I can't recall.
Mr. Zonen: How old were you the first time your father walked into the room when you were alone with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: I don't recall. It was during one of the earlier trips.
Mr. Zonen: So you were about nine years old?
Mr. Culkin: Probably a little bit older. Like – I don't think I went there -- I think I went there the first time when I was ten. I think I first met Michael when I was nine.
Mr. Zonen: So the first time you would have been alone in bed with him, you were already ten years old?
Mr. Culkin: Probably, yes.
Mr. Zonen: All right. Is there -- was there at the time an alarm on his door going into his bedroom?
Mr. Culkin: There was like a walkway kind of thing where if somebody was approaching the door, it would kind of like "ding-dong, ding-dong."
Mr. Zonen: All right. Do you remember hearing any "ding-dongs, ding-dongs" as your father came into the room?
Mr. Culkin: When anyone would approach the room, yeah, you'd hear this kind of -- soft kind of alarm, like "ding-dong" kind of thing.
Mr. Zonen: On the occasion that your father came into the room while you were in bed alone with Michael Jackson, did he say anything to you about that?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: Did he say anything to Michael Jackson in your presence about your sleeping with him?
Mr. Culkin: No. He didn't really seem to have a problem with it, from what I remember.
Mr. Zonen: And I asked you if he said anything. Did he say anything to Michael Jackson in your presence?
Mr. Culkin: Well, what do you mean by "anything"?
Mr. Zonen: Did he say anything to Michael Jackson about him sharing a bed with his ten-year-old son? Did he say anything to Michael Jackson about that in your presence at that time?
Mr. Culkin: No, it was a very casual thing. So, no, he never really said anything.
Mr. Zonen: The answer is "No"?
Mr. Culkin: No, he never said anything.
Mr. Zonen: And afterward, when you were alone with your father, did he ever discuss with you about your sharing a bed with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: When was the next time your father came into the room when you were in bed with Michael Jackson alone?
Mr. Culkin: I don't remember the specifics of anything like this. I don't remember when he, like, came in or when whatever. If I knew I had to remember, I probably would have.
Mr. Zonen: Did your mother ever come into the room when you were alone with Michael Jackson in bed?
Mr. Culkin: It's a possibility, yeah.
Mr. Zonen: Do you remember the first time that happened?
Mr. Culkin: No, not really, not in any specific detail.
Mr. Zonen: Do you know if it happened more than once?
Mr. Culkin: Yeah. He had a very open-door policy. His bedroom door at that time was never locked. Anyone could walk in.
Mr. Zonen: The question was, did your mother come into the room while you were in bed alone with Mr. Jackson more than one time?
Mr. Culkin: I really couldn't speak of any specifics like that.
Mr. Zonen: Did you ever have a conversation with your mother about whether or not it's appropriate for a 10-year-old boy to be sharing a bed with a 35-year-old man on a regular basis?
Mr. Culkin: No. We didn't share a bed on a regular basis.
Mr. Zonen: Did Mr. Jackson ever talk to you about other boys who shared his bed with you?
Mr. Culkin: Not really, no. Like I said, it was a casual thing, so it wasn't necessarily something that was, like, talked about. I'd fall asleep there, I'd fall asleep anywhere. People just kind of fell asleep wherever they wanted to. That was kind of the fun of the place, was that there was no rigid rules about when or where you should fall asleep.
Mr. Zonen: Did you share a bed with any other 35-year-old man other than a relative during your adolescence?
Mr. Culkin: Not that I remember, but I wasn't really friends with a lot of 35-year-olds who actually understood me.
Mr. Zonen: Can I assume the answer, then, is "No"?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: Are you aware of any of your brothers ever sharing a bed with any other 35-year-old man during their adolescence?
Mr. Culkin: I can't speak of that. You'd have to ask, you know, them.
Mr. Zonen: Have you ever witnessed any of your brothers sharing a bed with any adult men, not their relatives?
Mr. Culkin: Not personally, no.
Mr. Zonen: Have you ever had a conversation with your parents about sharing a bed with Michael Jackson?
Mr. Culkin: No.
Mr. Zonen: I have no further questions.
END TRIAL TRANSCRIPT EXCERPT. |
楼主
显身卡
发表于 2005-5-12 20:55:25
狗仔卡
发表于 2005-5-12 22:12:56