又一轮风暴即将来临？——93指控者叔父的《大曝光》一书将发行！！

以下是引用震撼我的世界在2004-9-12 21:43:15的发言： 难道我们什么都不能做吗？ 难道那本书就真的那么严重吗？ 天那！上帝睡过头了吗？ CANDY KEEN 不要告诉我们 你们也绝望了 知道这意味着什么吗？ 我不希望世界末日这么快就到来

谁说我们绝望了 这本书的危害性有多大，也不过是那作家的一家之言 这意味着这场战争将很艰辛 但谈不上什么世界末日

bast

希望全球歌迷联合起来，统一行动，声援michael，给美国媒体及司法部门施加压力。

mjwcz

就算我们再脆弱，也不会被一本垃圾书征服的。做好充分准备，等待战争升级的时刻。

barbie

又像在看电视剧了又在相互攻击，你来我往的他们倒是挺过瘾，可难为了我们的迈迈呢什么时候能还他一个清白

]http://atgbook.net/media.php《大曝光》提到的重要文件档案已经被R. CHANDLER放上了网。英文还好的朋友可以去上面的网址查看了。

男童的画作

Candysweet

以下是引用震撼我的世界在2004-9-12 21:43:15的发言： 难道我们什么都不能做吗？ 难道那本书就真的那么严重吗？ 天那！上帝睡过头了吗？ CANDY KEEN 不要告诉我们 你们也绝望了 知道这意味着什么吗？ 我不希望世界末日这么快就到来

我相信MJ是聪明人.定会拿出对策的. 我前面说的都是一些感叹,各位不要在意啊.

minnie

i have already read some part of that crap book, dont worry about that, Michael's lawyer Mez wil hold a press conference tomorrow and will do something to that crazy uncle.. that inverview bwetween that boy and doctor is comeletely insane and crapppppppppppppppppppp.... i am pissed off about that... keep our faith.... and gooooooooo.....

第四文：Jackson当年写给第一个指控男童的信件曝光[U]Fox411专栏作家：Roger Friedman [/U][/center] 11年前，35岁的超级流行巨星Michael Jackson正忙着与一个13岁的男童沟兑。而这个男童在指控Jackson性骚扰后，最终获得了2300万美元的和解金。 现在，这个男童的叔父就此事件所写的一本书即将发行，更多关于这名歌手在“Dangerous”和“Bad”时期的生活细节将被披露。《大曝光》的作者Ray Chandler在他自己出版的书中收录了一封Michael写给那男童的信件。我昨天核实了这封信件，并在此文中奉献你们，我亲爱的读者，以让你们作出自己的结论。 “XXX[男童的名字]，你不只是我的表弟也是我最好的朋友。我也不能停止对你母亲和姐姐的爱意。我在你们身上找到了真爱。如果有更多的人像我们一样，这个世界就会立即改观。我对你寄予金色的梦想。我想要你成为业界内的巨子。你是我新的激励。我爱你。‘嘟嘟头’。‘苹果头’。很快迪斯尼乐园见！爱你的， 嘟嘟很快我会打电话的。再见，嘟嘟头。告诉你妈妈我爱她！”（注：嘟嘟——MJ；嘟嘟头、苹果头——男童。都是Jackson圈子内他和小朋友互相叫的绰号）当然，Jackson和那男童绝对不会是表兄弟。据Chandler说，这封信被男童母亲拿给他和他的哥哥，即男童的父亲看过。这一点我也在昨天得到了证实。 《大曝光》的许多内容都会让读者生疑。这位作者很明显是为了靠这个来赚钱。在我于上周五报道该书内容后，我接到了很多人的电话，他们怒斥该作者和他的哥哥是在暗中伙同敛财，因为后者和Jackson签过保密协定，不能开口。当然我们现在也不知道这种说法是否正确。Ray Chandler坚持声称他和他的哥哥关系疏远。不管这个故事中男童的父亲是否是贪财、自私或只是贪婪，都不是那么重要，是吧？事实上是，Ray Chandler在《大曝光》中所书写的要点看上去是真的。Michael Jackson以前确实和那个小男孩有过过分而不正常的关系。那就是最重要的。其它都无所谓了。 明天，我将奉上一些证据，这些表明甚至Michael都明白他所做的一切, 而且如果不受惩罚的话，他都愿意让其曝光。（另：《大曝光》提到的重要文件档案已被Ray Chandler放上了他的书网。会英文的朋友可以去以下的网址查看：http://atgbook.net/media.php）

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-9-13 12:05:01编辑过]

D.J.Market

书中这些内容是真的吗？，如果是假的迈克不可已告他诽谤之类的来阻止发新吗？

以下是引用mjfan在2004-9-13 15:58:22的发言： 书中这些内容是真的吗？，如果是假的迈克不可已告他诽谤之类的来阻止发新吗？

所以，我们在等待……

minnie

以下是引用震撼我的世界在2004-9-12 21:43:15的发言： 难道我们什么都不能做吗？ 难道那本书就真的那么严重吗？ 天那！上帝睡过头了吗？ CANDY KEEN 不要告诉我们 你们也绝望了 知道这意味着什么吗？ 我不希望世界末日这么快就到来

我的小妹妹。。你有没有自己的想法呢》》 假如有那么一天，KEEN 和CANDY 都不在相信MICHAEL 了，那你怎么办了》》（ 对不起，KEEN CANDY。我打了比方） 你要有你自己的想法，用你自己的脑袋想问题。。明白了吗？？？ 你很单纯，单纯到有一点傻。。不要只靠着别人的消息来判断，你要站起来，用自己的脑袋想一想。。你还相信他吗？？？ 有问题可以PM 我。。

以下是93男童和精神医师的对话记录(October 6, 1993) In October of 1993 Larry Feldman sent Jordie to New York to be interviewed by the man, Dr. Richard Gardner, the nation's leading authority on false claims of child abuse. More often than not Dr. Gardner appears as an expert witness for the defense. Gardner put Jordie through a battery of psychological tests, written and oral, including a face to face interview. What follows is a transcript of that interview. Information appearing in brackets [ ] was added to aid in following the timeline of the book. The symbol //////// designates a deleted segment, either idle chit chat or a detailed description of sex acts. Most of the “ums,” “ers,” and repeated phrases have been omitted in the interest of clarity and brevity. And the names of other boys have been changed to protect their privacy. First there was an introductory period in which Gardner explained to Jordie that there were some who claimed he might be lying, and that one of the purposes of the interview was to find out the truth. Gardner also informed Jordie how important it was that they be honest with each other. Jordie asked Gardner a few personal questions, making it clear that he was trying to find out if the psychiatrist liked children. After Jordie had relaxed, Dr. Gardner began his interview. They started with the chance encounters between Jordie and Michael prior to their meeting in 1992 (see All That Glitters). Then . . . "Okay," Dr. Gardner asked. "At age twelve and a half, May ‘92, what happened then?" "I met him at Mr. Schwartz's (car rental agency)," Jordie answered, and went on to explain how it happened, ending with this. "And then my stepfather took him [Michael] outside to choose a car for him to use. And I guess when my stepfather was outside he said, 'You don't have to pay for the car if you just take Jordie's number and give him a call.'" "Why would your stepfather say that?" "Because my stepfather knows I was interested in Michael Jackson and his music." "And this was in your presence?" "No. I was told this by my stepfather." "So what happened then?" "Then he [Michael] left." "Did he agree to the deal, Jackson?" "Yeah." "Okay, then what happened?" "I don't remember how many days later, but he called me." "What did he say?" "He said...I don't really remember, but I remember the conversations we had on the phone around the early days of our relationship." "That was the beginning of the relationship, is that correct?" "Right." "How long did the first call last?" "I don't remember. I don't remember the very first call." "In this first phase, let's call it the telephone call phase. I would like to try to break it down into phases. This first phase was started around May of ’92; that phase which was confined just to telephone calls. How long did that phase last?" "I would say sometime in late January of this year [1993].” "How often were the calls during this phase?" "Well, see, he went on tour during the summer so that was when I got off of school, so I would say June or so. But before that he called - - I don't know, I don't want to guess wrong. I don’t know." "If you could guess the total number of calls during that first phase, over that seven or eight month period?" “I don’t know. Do you think I could tell you - get more specific in the phase - and let’s see there? So, well, I remember - - he called over there at my dad’s house but my step-father had gave him my mom’s number.” “You were living primarily with your mother at that point.” “Yes.” “Okay.” “And so, I assume he - - I can’t really remember but I assume he was used to calling my mother’s house. And so he called my dad’s house. I don’t know, I think my mother gave him the number. We spoke for, I remember, for like three hours.” “You had conversations for three hours?” “Well, that one call.” “There was one phone call for three-hours; we’re talking about the telephone phase now.” “Well, I’m trying to be specific and then when I’m finished - - ” “Was it all in that time frame now, I want to stick with that time frame?” “Right, I know, well I have to remember what happened.” “Sure, but I’m going to interrupt you to clarify. Was there more than one three-hour telephone call during the telephone phase?" "Yes." "About how many, roughly, were there?" “I don’t know, it could be - - ” “More than ten? Was it roughly 5-10 such calls to the best of your ability? Would that be an accurate statement?” (Inaudible.) “Okay, that’s all. I don’t expect you to (inaudible) but if you could narrow it down to a rough guess and we’re able to indicate that that’s a guess then that’s fine.” “Okay, well - - ” "What would you talk about in these three-hour conversations?" "He would talk about things he likes to do.” “Like what?” “Like video games. He’d talk about things he has at his Neverland Ranch.” “How is that spelled?” “N-e-v-e-r-l-a-n-d.” “He told me he had animals." "Did he tell you what animals he had?" "Giraffes, elephants, a lion, horses, a petting zoo, and other animals. He had reptiles." "What other things did he say that he liked?" "Playing water fights. He has this custom made water fight place.” “What is that like?” “It’s sort of like a water-war zone." "Was it some kind of a pool or something like that?" "No, it was structures built with water guns attached to it; all different things. It has an obstacle course." "What else did he talk about?" "He talked about some of the friends he had." "What did he say about his friends?" "Well, he talked about who some of his more famous friends were." "Like who?" “Peter Davis.” “And who was he?” “He’s the kid from [deleted for privacy].” "Was there anything special about that relationship at this time?" "He said that Peter Davis was the kind of kid who likes to prank a lot, to prank people." "Was he involved in pranks with him?" "Sort of. He said Peter Davis sort of coerced him into going along." "What other friends did he say he had?" "Joshua Samuels, who was [deleted for privacy]." “Joshua Samuels, who is he?” “[Deleted for privacy], you know?” “How old is Joshua Samuels now?” “I don’t know; he could be [deleted for privacy].” "And what did he say about Joshua Samuels?" "That he was his friend and that was it." "In any of this period, was there anything sexual said?" "No." "Anything else that he’d talk about on the telephone during these conversations?" "Other things that he had done at his ranch. He has a carnival sort of thing, a movie theater, some golf carts that you drive around in." "Would you say that that was the main topic of conversation, telling you about his Neverland?" "Yeah." "And what were your reactions to that?" "Well, for just a regular kid it seemed pretty fantastical and overwhelming. And also, he would tell me that Neverland is named after the place that Peter Pan was, because he thought that he was Peter Pan." "He thought that he was Peter Pan?" "Yeah. And he said that Neverland was a place where kids had the right-of-way, on the roads, had the dominance, sort of. Could have what you want when you want it." "Is there anything else you can tell me about these conversations? We're still talking about the telephone phase." "No, that's about it. But after that, he went on tour in June and came back in early February, late January." "Oh, so in this time frame during the telephone phase from May ’92 to late January ‘93, he was on tour?” “Except for (inaudible) May and I would say June.” “And the tour lasted how long?” “From I would say June to February.” "So from June ’92 to February ’93, he was on tour? Is it correct to say then that these telephone calls were made from various parts of the world? “Yeah." “Do you remember some of the countries?” “Paris, Rome. I think he was in Turkey or something. I could be wrong about that.” "Okay, anything else you want to tell me about phase one?" "Well, actually the first time - when I was at my dad’s and I spoke to him for three hours – he was at his apartment complex in Century City. We were trying to work out a time when I could go there and play with the video games.” “So there was an invitation extended?” “Except it didn’t work out because - - ” “When was this to the best of your recollection?” “May of ’92, he invited you to Century City?” “He has an apartment there which is called ‘The Hideout”.” “Why is it called “The Hideout’?” “Because it’s in a very public place but yet nobody knows he’s there.” “He invited you with whom? Did he invite you with anybody else or was it you alone?” “I don’t remember, I think - - I don’t know.” “Okay, but why didn’t it work out?” “Because I had to study.” “Now, anything else you can tell me about that time?” ///////// "You used the words before, that it was fantastic and overwhelming. What I want to know is, that between these calls, did you find yourself thinking about him a lot?" "Uh-huh." "What kind of thoughts were you having?" "Like, um, his house must be a great place, and everything." “Did you dream about it?” “I don’t think so.” “Did it in any way interfere with school work?” "The calls?" "Yeah, I mean when you're talking to him you can't do homework, but did it interfere with your concentrating on what you're supposed to do, school, and things like that?" "No." "What were your parents' reactions during all this time of that phase?" "I don't remember them thinking anything bad about it at all." "So now the next phase would be starting in January of ‘93. Now you know better than I - - " "That would be late January, early February." "Okay, let’s call that phase two. Now, you know better than I how to break down phases since this is from your life and your experiences. What would you like to set aside as phase two?” “Maybe, we should call it the portion of seeing him. We could call it that.” “Okay, seeing him. So that phase two begins with actual contact with him - when two human beings are together as opposed to over the phone." "Right.” “That’s when phase two starts.” “Actually, I think we should call it more of the early part of it, because, um, things got bad as it got intimate." "When you say it got bad, you mean what?" "Sexual things happened." "Okay. Let's do this now. Let’s call phase two the phase when there was involvement with him - not through the telephone but you were with him together - but there was nothing sexual. Do you want to call that phase two? “Yeah.” “And then phase three would be sexual." “Yeah.” “Since you mentioned the sexual, and that’s, let’s say, around early February?” “Yeah.”

“Early February ’93 to when?” “I think maybe my mom would know, because that was during the Las Vegas trip, where it switched. That was the first trip." “Okay, so that’s the best of your recollection. I’m going to speak to your mom and your dad later and they can fill me in on some of these details. That’s one of the reasons I have your mom in the next room so if there’s any discrepancies in details, I can get it from her. To the best of your knowledge – recollection – when was Las Vegas? Was it before the summer or after the summer?” “I believe it was after the summer. After the summer of ’92 but not - - ” “We’re in ’93.” “Right. So it was before, like, I believe I had a break in school in February.” “Okay, well you said that phase two started in February of ’93.” “Early.” “Early February of ’93.” ////// “You said something about Las Vegas. So you’re saying that something happened physically in Las Vegas? Is that what you’re saying?” “Yeah, that’s when it started.” "You started to sleep in his bed? Did you start to sleep in his bed in early February ’93?” “No.” “Was there a time frame where - - ” "Sort of later February." "So phase two might have been a very short time then?” “Yeah.” “Okay, I just wanted to get an idea when there was contact. See, in phase one, there was nothing sexual, right?” “That’s right, in phase one.” “In phase two, we’re still talking about nothing sexual but there was contact with him as human beings as opposed to the telephone. I would say, sleeping in bed, I'll call that sexual. Some people might not but I would." "Right, and I consider that too, and that's where it switched." "Most people would consider it sexual to sleep in bed with a person. How long was the time frame from the time you first saw him in the flesh, and the time you slept in bed with him?" "I don't know." "But it was in February when you started sleeping in the bed with him.” "Right, right. I’m really not even sure if it was in February, but - - " “Okay, but phase two then was a short period.” “Right.” "Maybe about a month, or less then a month?" "I don't know." "Okay, we'll put that in as a question mark. Now what I want to know is in that phase, what kinds of things did you do with him, before you slept in bed with him?" "Well, we went to his Neverland." "Who's we?" "Me, my mother and Kelly, my sister, my half-sister." "What happened there?" "Nothing happened. I slept in the guest area with my mother and Kelly, and Michael stayed in his room." "How long were you at Neverland?" "I think for a weekend." “Do you know if it was Friday or Saturday or Sunday? Was it two days or three days?” “I don’t know.” "What did you do?" "We went jet skiing on a small lake he has.” “What else did you do there?” “We saw the animals and played video games." "You did those things with him?" "Yeah." "So these activities were with him? What other kind of activities did you do with him?" "We took golf cart rides." "With Kelly and your mother?" "Occasionally, like, half and half. They would go off sometimes." “Who’s they?” “My mother and Kelly.” "How many visits were there to Neverland in that time frame?" "I don't remember." "So we’re still in phase two now. Anything else besides the visits to Neverland in phase two?" "We may have gone to the Century City apartment." "Who was with you?" "Michael and I. I can’t remember if my mom (inaudible)." "Then what happened? Is that the end of phase two? Were there calls during phase two?" "Yeah." "Calls lasting three hours?" "Yeah. Oh yeah, I just remembered. When we were at Neverland we went to Toys-R-Us, when it was closed. My sister and I could get anything we wanted." "They opened the store for him, is that it?" "Right." "How much would you buy?" "A lot. We got to take along shopping carts and fill them up." "Do you have any idea what the cost of that was?” “No.” “What kinds of things did you get, do you remember?” “Video games (inaudible).” “Anything else in phase two?" "No." “Going back to phase one. I know you don’t have a record of the times he called you, but if you could guess offhand the total number of telephone calls in phase one, what would you say it was? Not only the three-hours calls, but the calls that were shorter as well, what would you say?” “I believe ten.” "Now, let's go into phase three." “Do you think phase three should be subdivided or would you just like to describe it as how things evolved?” “I don’t really know because - - can we fill that question in later?” “Sure.” "Phase three began, I would say, when we were on the trip to Las Vegas. We stayed at the Mirage Hotel." “On a trip, and to the best of your recollection that was when?” “I can’t really remember. I think late February or so.” “Okay, that was after the trip to Neverland, after the Toys-R-Us. In Century City, did anything special happen?” “No, not that I can remember. We just played video games.” “He had the video games there?” “When you say we, who was we?” “My mother, Kelly and I.” [Sort break]. "What happened in Las Vegas?" "My mom and Kelly shared a room. Michael had his own room. It was a big suite." “Was Kelly in the same room with you?” “No, with my mom, and I had my own room.” "You had your room, Kelly and your Mom had a room, and Michael had a room." "That's right." “Was it connected or in separate places? Was it one big suite?” “It was a big suite, yeah.” “Go ahead” “Let’s see, one night - - “ “How long were you there?” “I don’t know, maybe a week.” “What happened that night?” “After my mom and Kelly went to sleep, we went to watch the movie The Exorcist. We were in his room, in his bed. And when it was over I was scared, and he said, why don't you just stay in here. And I did and nothing happened." "When you say you stayed in the room - - " "Stayed in the same bed." “Slept in the same bed?” “That’s right.” "When you slept in the same bed was there any physical contact?" "No." "Was it a big bed?" "Yeah, I think so." “So there was no physical contact. What were your thoughts when he said let's sleep in the same bed?" "Well, I was scared, and I didn't think anything was going to happen." “You were scared of him or scared of the movie?” “The movie. So I said, ‘Okay, that’s fine.” It was like a regular slumber party.” “Okay, is there anything else to say about that event?” “Just simply that we talked about how they got the idea for The Exorcist. So the next morning, I was with my mom alone and - - ” "Did your mother know that you had slept in bed with him?" "Well, I’m getting to that. I said, ‘I slept with Michael in the same bed last night,’ and she said, ‘Well, just don't do it again’." "Did she speak to Michael at all?" "Well, I'll get to that. So when I told Michael the news of the fact that she said don't do that again - don’t sleep in the same bed - we were alone, Michael and I, and he burst out in tears and said, 'She can't set up barricades like that,' and 'Nothing could happen, it's just a simple slumber party type thing,' and 'There's nothing wrong with it’.” “He said, nothing will happen, there’s nothing wrong with it, and it’s like a slumber party?” “Right. And so, he came - - I don't remember if I was crying or not but he decided that he had to confront my mom with his feelings about what she said. What he told me he said, ‘There's nothing wrong with it, you should allow it because it's simple and fun and you shouldn't set up barricades.’ And he got my mom feeling so guilty that she just broke down in tears and decided that, okay, I believe you. And Michael somehow got her to agree that there would be no further questions asked. And so from that point on I was in his bed till the end of our relationship." "So, are you saying from then on you were in his bed - - are you talking about the Las Vegas trip, or from then on all the time?" "All the time." "You said to the best of your recollection the Las Vegas trip was one week. How many times did you sleep in his bed?" "I’d say maybe two or three." "Okay, was there any physical contact?" "No." "Was there any undressing in front of you?" "No." "Did you undress in front of him?" "No." "Okay, alright that’s Las Vegas. Are we finished with Las Vegas? Is there anything else to say about Las Vegas?" “No, that’s it.” “Okay, bring me to the next step then.” "Well, when we got back to L.A. our friendship was a lot more close than when we had left, and so we saw each other more. And we quite frequently went up to his ranch." "And each time you were there you would sleep in bed with him?" "Yeah. And my mom and Kelly would stay in that same guest place." "And how far was that guest place from the room you slept in?" "It was far, it was quite a lot. Know where the bathrooms are? From here to the bathrooms." [Jordie is describing the distance from the interview room to the bathrooms in the building in which Dr. Gardner’s office is located.] “That’s like a block away. It’s the equivalent of a city block.” “No, it’s smaller than that.” “Half a block away?” “I can’t really remember, but that’s about right.” “Okay, I would say that’s a few hundred feet.” “Well, I don’t know, you should ask my mom.” "It was in the same house?" "No." "It was in a different house?" "Yeah. It was like a guest complex and they stayed in that room." "So it was a different building?" "But Michael and I stayed in his room, which was in the main house." "So here we are in Neverland, and then what's the next step?" "Well, I slept in his bed there, and then each week we would go back up and it would kind of progress sleeping in bed, and I think one night we were sleeping in the bed, I think it was at Neverland, and he just leaned over and hugged me or something." "Okay, lets call that the end of phase two. Let’s call phase three sleeping in the same bed and nothing else. Alright?” “Yeah.” “We’ll call phase four: it was more physical contact." "This is where it starts." "Where the physical contact started? When would you say that started to the best of your recollection?” “When like what time?" “What month? I mean Las Vegas, you said, was in early February sometime.” “Las Vegas was more like later February.” “Okay, late February. When was the first hug?” “I don’t know.” “Do you have any idea?” “No.” “Was it before the summer of ’93?” "I would think early May, middle May [1993]." "Somewhere in May ’93; that was the first hug? And that was while you were in bed?" "Yes." "Where were you at the time? Where was the bed - physical location?” “Do you want me to describe what his room looked like? "No, I’m wondering where the bed was. Were you at Neverland or were you in some city?” “Oh, this was in Neverland. I think it may have been somewhere else but I’m almost positive it was Neverland.” “Okay, and what happened then?” "He hugged me and I thought nothing of it. I said, okay, whatever. And that was it and he continued that for a small amount of time." "How long would the hug last?" "A quick hug and that was it." "And this was while in bed?" "Yeah, and fully clothed." "And did you say anything?" "I don’t remember, I think he said 'I love you, good night,' or something. I don't know." "Did you push him away?" "No. I just – I don't think I hugged him back. I just said, 'I love you, good night.' "He said 'I love you'?" "I think so, I don't know." "When you say ‘I love you,’ it can be said in many different ways. You understand, someone can say ‘I love you’ and their really saying I’m in love, and sometimes you can say ‘I love you’ as a friendly gesture without romantic feelings. What kind of a way did you say that? Were you saying it with romantic feelings or - - ?" "Just friends." “Just friendly. It wasn’t a romantic love?” “No.” "Okay, go ahead." "So after that hugging thing - - " "Are you describing now a beginning of a pattern of hugging?" "Yes, like every time he would graduate to a new sexual act, we'd continue that and graduate some more." "Okay, what was the next step? So are you saying there was a lot of hugging, a lot of attempts to hug?" "Yeah." "Did this happen in bed or under other circumstances?" "You know, I mean it was just a regular hug that if anybody saw it they wouldn't think anything of it." “He did it in public situations?” “Yeah, like a goodbye kind of hug.” "Did you ever feel in those hugs that he was sexually aroused? You didn’t ever feel he had an erection or anything like that?" "No." "Okay, the next step." "I think he kissed me on the cheek, or something." "When did that occur?" "I don’t know, around the same time." "Around the same time, so you’re talking about May – we’re still in May of ‘93. He kissed you on the cheek, under what circumstances? Were you in bed? Were you standing up? What were the circumstances?" "I think we were in bed." "What kind of kiss was it?" "Just a peck on the cheek. I think it was a goodnight peck on the cheek." "And then what happened?" "And so he continued that as well as the hugging and then graduated to kissing me on the lips." "When did that occur as far as you know?" "I don't know." "Was it before the summer?" "Yeah."

“Is it correct to say it was June? Would that be reasonable?” “I don’t know. I really don’t know.” “But it was before the summer?” “Yeah.” "There are different kinds of kissing on the lips. What kind of a kiss was it?" "Just a peck." "Was his mouth open or closed?" "Closed." "And how long did it last?" "I don't know, a second, I think." "Was this in bed?" “Yeah.” "And then the next step?" "Next step, I think he graduated to like kissing me for a longer amount of time, you know." "On the lips?" "Yes." "Where was this? Where were most of these things happening? Was it Neverland? Was it mostly Neverland?" "Neverland." "Were there other places other than Neverland where this was happening?" "Yeah. At Century City, at the Hideout." "So primarily at Neverland and Century City Hideout? This Century City Hideout, I don’t think I have a clear picture of what it’s like, you said it’s in an area where people wouldn’t know there was a hideout there." “Well, there are many apartments around there - - ” “Is Century City that name of a city around there?” “Yeah.” “You see, I’m from the east coast is all. Century City is part of Los Angeles?” “Yes.” /////// “Okay, so it’s really an apartment. Right? I get the picture. So it happened there and it happened in Neverland and Century City and in your mother’s house?” "Yes." “He was sleeping over at your mother’s house?” “Yes.” "And when he’d sleep over at your mother's house, he was in the room together with you?" “I had my room.” “And he would sleep in your room?” "Yeah." "About how many occasions did he sleep in your room at your mother's house?" “I don’t know. My mom would know. I don’t.” “Roughly.” “I don’t know.” “More than five times?” “Yeah.” “More than ten times would you say?” “Uh-huh.” “More than fifteen times?” “I don’t know.” “Twelve to fifteen would be a reasonable number?” “It could be a whole lot more but that’s something my mom would have to say.” “Okay, what we’re talking about now, is this is all before the summer?” “I think so.” "Okay, so then, we’re talking about kissing on your lips a long time." "And then one time he was kissing me on the lips for a longer amount of time - a peck on the lips - and he put his tongue in my mouth." "And what was your reaction to that?" "I said, 'Hey, I didn't like that. Don't do that again’." "And what did he say?" "He started crying, much like when he tried to convince my mother to allow us to sleep in the same bed." "And what did he say?" "He said there's nothing wrong with it. He would get me to do things and convince me that the things he was doing weren't wrong, because he would talk about people who levitate, you know, it was weird." "He would talk about people who what?" "Levitate." "What does levitate mean to you?" "Rise up from the ground by means of meditating." "And what did he say about levitation?" "That the people who levitate are unconditioned. It's confusing; it took me a long time to understand it." "When you talk about unconditioned, what does that mean?" "That they were not conditioned to believe that gravity existed, and I suppose that that meant that those who are unconditioned would find what Michael was doing was not wrong. Do you understand that?" “Uh-huh. What else did he say to you?" "He said, also, during phase one, the telephone phase, his cousin would go along with him on the tour. And I spoke to his cousin one time. We just said hello." "Was his cousin a boy or girl?" "A boy about my age, eleven or twelve." "What was his cousin's name?" "His name is Tommy Jones; he was on the news if you’ve been watching, in defense of Michael." "Tommy Jones. He’s thirteen now?” “I think - - no, I think he’s twelve.” “And he went on the concerts?” “On the tours.” “On the tours. And he was on the news saying what?" "He said, 'I will admit that Michael and I are friends and we do sleep in the same bed, but Michael has never touched me,' and, 'it's a really big bed'." "So he spoke about his cousin. And what did he say about Tommy Jones?" "He said that, um, like, if he wanted me to do something with him, he would say that Tommy did that with him, so that I would do it. And, like, if I didn't do it, then I didn't love him as much as Tommy did." [Jordie makes a heavy sigh.] “Are you okay?” “Yeah.” “Okay, fine, you’re doing very nicely. You know, we’re going to take a break but let’s try to finish this and then we’ll take a break.” "Do you think that Tommy Jones was lying when he went on television?" "Yes." "Why do you think he's lying?" "Because Michael told me they did." "Okay, but Michael said he did these things - - " "I mean it could be that Michael could be lying to me." "Somebody is lying. Right? Because Michael was lying to Tommy by saying the opposite things, right?” "Yeah, well one of them is lying.” “Who do you think is lying?” “Tommy.” "Why do you say that?" "Because in public, when he’s with Tommy, they're very close together physically and verbally and relationship-wise. And if one were to observe things in public, how they acted to each other, one would come to that conclusion, that it was more then just a friendly relationship." "Now, let’s go on. So that was the lip kissing. Then he cried - - ” “He tries to make me feel guilty for - - " “And then what happened?” "And then one time, when he was hugging me and kissing me, and he rubbed up against me. I don't know if he had an erection or not. I can’t remember." "Now was this in bed or what?" "Bed." “Was this all before the summer?” “I don’t remember. It may have gone into the summer.” "So you took what as the next step? You’re talking about the gradual development; the next step was his rubbing against you?" "Yes." “With an erection.” “I think he had an erection. As it graduated he did." "And then?" "Then it graduated to where he had an erection and he would kiss me." "Kiss you where?" "On my mouth. By the way, he never put his tongue in my mouth again once I told him not to." "What's the next step?" "Let's see, I think the next step was, I had an erection and he rubbed up against me and that was it." "You had an erection and he rubbed himself against - - ?" "And he did, he did as well." "Okay, and where was his erection and where was your erection? You both have an erection." "We were on top of each other." "Anything else?" "That was it, and then it graduated to other stuff. Somewhere during that time we went to Florida." "When did you go to Florida?" "I don't know. My mom would know. [April 1993.] And there we stayed in the same room." "Where was your mother?" "Same suite, different room, with Kelly." "What happened in Florida?" "Several things happened. One, he grabbed my butt, put his tongue in my ear - - " "He grabbed your butt; was he forcing you?" "No. Well, he was kissing me and he grabbed my butt." "It wasn't forced?" "But, um, and then the third thing was that he was walking to the bathroom to take a shower, and he looked at me before he closed the door and he said, 'I wish I didn't have to do this,' and he shut the door, implying that he wished he could be so free as to be able to change in front of me." “Changing from what to what? I’m a little confused. You said he grabbed your butt - - ” “There are three different things.” “He grabbed your butt, put his tongue in your ear and walked into the bathroom and said, ‘I wish I didn’t have to do this.’ “Then he shut the door.” “How long was he in the bathroom?” “He took a shower, I don’t know.” “Now, when he said ‘I wish I didn’t have to do this,’ what was he referring to?” “To shut the door behind him when he had to change.” "The implication being that he would like to be naked in front of you, is that what you’re saying?" "Right. But somewhere on the trip I said, 'I didn't like when you put your tongue in my ear and grabbed my butt.' Once again, he started crying and making me feel guilty, and saying there's nothing wrong with it, and referring to the levitators and Tommy. I think he referred to Tommy and said Tommy wouldn’t care if I did that to him."