【迈克尔杰克逊的私密录音节选版】犹太牧师出的书 MJ心灵告白

lovelymj

Celebrity Relationships Gone Wrong-Madonna and Others

SB: I asked Michael about his celebrity friends. Why could he connect with them more than non-celebrities?

MJ: Yeah, but I don't really have Hollywood friends. I have a few.

SB: Why don't you? Why don't you hang out with more celebrities?

MJ: Because I don't think they are all real people. They love the limelight and I don't have anything in common with them. They want to go clubbing and afterwards they want to sit around and drink hard liquor and do marijuana and do all kinds of crazy things that I wouldn't do. We have nothing in common. Remember the line I told you? Madonna laid the law down to me before we went out. "I am not going to Disneyland, okay? That's out.. I said, "But I didn't ask you to go to Disneyland." She said, "We are going to the restaurant and afterwards we are going to a strip bar." I said, "I am not going to a strip bar." Guys who cross-dress! Afterwards she wrote some mean things about me in the press and I wrote that she is a nasty witch, after I was so kind to her. I have told you that we were at the table eating and some little kids came up. "Oh my God, Michael Jackson and Madonna. Can we have your autograph?" She said, "Get out of here.Leave us alone." I said, "Don't ever talk to children like that." She said, "Shut up." I said, "You shut up." That's how we were. Then we went out again and we went to the Academy Awards and she is not a nice person. I have to say it. She is not a nice person.

SB: Did people around you feel that it was important to be seen with her?

MJ: They knew nothing about it. This was totally between her and me.

SB: So you gave it a chance and it didn't work?

MJ: Yeah, I gave it a chance like I try and give everything a chance.

SB: You basically saw that your values do not match those of most Hollywood people.

MJ: No, they do lots of crazy things that I am not into and at the time I was with Madonna she was into these books, a whole library of books of women who were tied to walls. She said, "I love spanky books." (lol)
Why do I want to see that?

SB: I think a lot of it is the image. She once said something to the effect that she would much rather read a good book than have sex. I think the other vulgar stuff is part of the outrageous image she tries to cultivate.

MJ: She's lying [about preferring to read a book]. I can't judge. I don't know if she has changed or is she [is[ trying to claim she has changed.

SB: Why does she say mean things?

( Rabbi talks about how Madonna is a devotee of Kabbala and that she is a loving and devoted mother.)

MJ: I think she likes shock value and she knows hot to push buttons on people. I think she was sincerely in love with me and I was not in love with her. She did a lot of crazy things and that's how that went. I knew we had nothing in common. But I am pretty sure that having a baby has to change you. I don't know how much she has changed. I;m sure she is a better person than before.

SB: She has two children now.

MJ: Yeah, I know. How would you like getting a phone call and she is telling you that she is putting her fingers between her legs. I would say, "Oh Madonna, please." She said, "What I want you to do when I hang up the phone is to rub yourself and think of me." (rofl) That's the kind of stuff she says. She does. When I see her she says, " This is the finger I used last night." Wild, out of control.

SB: But you were raised that all things romantic should have a certain modesty...the values you were raised with are very similar to core Jewish values. That kind of thing that Madonna was saying is only shocking at first. Then it quickly becomes humdrum and boring. That's why she has to push the envelope and become more and more shocking just to sustain our interest in her. When people have their breasts out the whole time then you stop looking. Do you see that as vulgar?

MJ: What she does? Absolutely. She is not sexy at all. I think sexy comes from the heart in the way you present yourself.

SB: Have you ever found women who are a bit more modest to be more attractive for that reason?

MJ: Yeah. I don't like the women who are always saying, "My nails need to be done. I have to do my toes. I need a manicure." I hate all that. I like it when girls are little bit more tomboyish. If they wrestle, climb a tree...I love that. It is sexier to me. I like class, though. Class is everything.

SB: If a woman walks around with her cleavage showing...

MJ: Frank loves it.

SB-( Michael gestures at Frank Cascio, who was sitting right next to us. We all laughed).

SB: A man might want to have sex with a woman like that. But it doesn't mean he would want to fall in love with a woman like that.

MJ: Of course you want to look. I am in love with innocence and I tell Frank that.

       
Vick  
Invincible Poster
       
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Perrot Island, Canada
Posts: 899


SB: Have you met women who have that innocence or by and large would you say that this generation is cultivating women who are not innocent, who are not encouraged to preserve their innocence?

MJ: I wish they were.

SB: Celebrities are targets for people who marry them for the wrong reasons, their fortune and their name. But don't you know when someone is interested in you for the wrong reason?

MJ: You don't know.

SB: The ancient rabbis said that worlds that emanate from the heart penetrate the heart. That sincerity cannot be faked. You can't tell when someone is faking it and is full of it?

MJ: It is hard because the women today can do a good job of faking it. I mean a real good job. They are smooth. Look in the Bible. Women have taken the most powerful men down to nothing because of what is between their legs. Samson, nobody could cut his hair, and he had sex with Delilah.

SB: Monica Lewinsky and Clinton... what everyone overlooks is that she went after him, which doesn't excuse Clinton, but she's not off the hook either.

MJ: Didn't I say that the other day? One woman did so much pain to this president. How much can a woman do to try and hurt a president? Look what she caused, and that's why I don't like Barbara Walters because she instigated a lot of it. She made it all on television. She tried to come here today and I canceled it.

( lol they sound like two old ladies gossiping hahaha, anyway skipping half a page of rabbi's babbling)

MJ: I don't like clubs now, I did all that when I was eleven, eight and going back-nine, eight, seven, six. Fights break out, people throwing up, yelling, screaming, the police sirens. Our father never let us become a part of it other than to perform and leave. But sometimes in having to do that you would get caught up in some of the craziness. I saw it all. The lady who came on right before, when The Jackson's were little, " And now next, The Little Jackson 5", was the lady who took off all her clothes. Threw her panties into the audience and the men would grab them and sniff them. I saw all this. Her name was Rose Marie and she put these things on her breasts and moved them around and she showed everything. So when I became sixteen, seventeen and guys would say, "Let's go clubbing," I would go, "Are you crazy?" And the guys would be like, "No, are you crazy? We can get girls, we can get liquor." But I had done that. I did that when I was a baby. Now I want to be a part of the world and the life I didn't have. Take me to Disneyland, take me to where the magic is.


Someone else volunteered to type as well I will just wait for a confirmation from them and if I don't get it till tomorrow I will continue with the next chapter.

jessicayang

哈…………我来试试七楼……是第一次翻译，水平有限，不过我会尽力的……
如此喜欢MJ总应该为他做些什么……

lovelymj

SB: Let me ask you about loneliness. So wherever you travel, you, thank God, have an entourage. People you've been with for a long time, Frank and Skip [Michael's bodyguard at the time, a very pleasant and decent man from New Orleans]. But it's not like having a wife in your life or something. Do you get lonely? Or is there so much going on in your life that is doesn't really happen?

MJ: Like lonely for like a wife? For like a mate? Like that?

SB: Yeah.

MJ: I've been through two bad divorces and I just got out of the second one. Even when married to those women that I was married to, I'd go to bed hurting. I was hurting. I was crying last night as I went to sleep and I didn't sleep good last night. And I cry, Shmuely, because I feel this...and I'm not trying, I'm telling you the honest truth and if you don't believe me you can ask Frank. Frank knew how I was hurting. I just was feeling all the pain of the children who suffer and I was hurting so much. That's why I was trying to reach any child I knew who had pain, from [Michael mentions a little girls who was battling cancer and whose family he met at out home] to Gavin [Michael's later accuser]. I was trying to like, calling, dialing and I woke up the first thing, the first person I called was [the little girl's] house and she had gone already. It hurts me. But I think that's where my real love comes from, Shmuely. If I can help in that way I'm fine and I don't need the other [romantic love]. You know if I meet some girl somewhere and I think she;s beautiful, which I see a lot of them, that's great. I mean, I'll go on a date or something. Nothing wrong with that. Jennifer Lopez looked awfully good the other day, she did. I was shocked 'cause I never thought...She looked good. [Michael laughs as he says this].

SB: But have you given up on women understanding you? You tend to think that children will understand you a lot better?

MJ: I'm not easy to live with in that way for a wife. I;m not easy and I know I'm not easy. Because I give all my time to someone else. I give it to children, I give it to somebody sick somewhere, to the music. And women want to be the center. And I remember Lisa Marie would always say to me, "I'm not a piece of furniture, I'm not a piece of furniture. You can't just...." I say, "I don't want you to be a piece of furniture," and, you know, there'd be some sick little girls calling on the phone and she'd get mad and hang up on them. And, you know, I feel that's my, that's my mission, Shmuely. I have to do it.

SB: What if you found that woman who was that soft, who was incredibly soft?

MJ: Like Mother Teresa or Lady Diana or....that would be great. It would be perfect.

SB: Would that be better than having to do it on your own?

MJ: Absolutely, and Lisa was great with going to the hospitals with me, and she was so sweet about that. They would tie the babies to the bed or chain the children down. We'd go unchain...we'd go free all these babies. I hated that and she, she discovered a lot of that injustice with me. Countries like Romania and Prague, Czechoslovakia and all that, Russia. You should see what they do to the children in those...you'd be shocked. They chain them to the wall like they're animals and they're naked and they slept in their tinkle and their feces too. It's just so sad, it made me sick. So we brought clothes and toys and just love and love. I love them and I went back every day visiting them, hugging them, wanting to take each and every one of them to Neverland.

SB: When you started becoming this childhood star, did you realize that your childhood was slowly sleeping away? You won a contest at age eight. In 1964, you were chosen as lead singer for the family band. Did that make you feel excited or where you worried? Did you think to yourself, "Where is all this headed? What's it going to lead to?"

MJ: I didn't think about it. I didn't think about the future. I just took each day as it came. I knew I wanted to be a star. I wanted to do things and make people happy.

SB: Did you know what the cost is going to be in terms of childhood?

MJ: No way. No way.

SB-The phone rings. Michael talks to the president of Sony Records, Tommy Mottola, who has invited Michael to his wedding. Michael says he wants to sit musicians with him so he can throw peanuts at Tommy. I think to myself, "Michael's playfulness never ends."

MJ on the phone: Tell the guys to let the music talk to them and not to, like, jump on right away. Listen to it a couple of times and let the melody create itself. That's the thing, let the the music speak to them. Alright? Goodbye.

SB: Is that your dream that one day, like part of the messianic future, as far as you're concerned, that all these kids will come and live in Neverland and live happily ever after?

MJ: Yes.

SB: And if you had the resources truly you would just...

MJ: I would do it, Shmuely. I would do it. I would love it.

SB: Lisa Marie was good about at least visiting. So she had no problem going and doing some of the compassionate things of giving these children love and making them feel special?

MJ: She had no problem doing that but her and I had several big arguments 'cause she's very territorial with her children. Her children were [ her major concern]....and I said, "No, all children are our children," and she never liked that coming from me. She was very angry about that. Plus, she had a fight with me one time when two little boys in London killed this other kid and I was going to visit them 'cause the queen gave them adult sentencing of life. These wee like eleven-and ten-year-old boys and I was going to go to the prison and visit them. She said, "You idiot. You're just rewarding them for what they did." I said, "How dare you say that." I said, " I bet if you trace their life you can find they didn't have parents around, they didn't have any love, nobody there to hold them look in their eyes and say, "I love you." They deserve that, even though they're going to get life, I just want to say I love you and hold them." She said, "Well, you're wrong." I said, "No, you're wrong." Then the information came out that they came from broken families, were never watched as little kids, attended to. Their pacifier was those Chucky movies with the stabbings and the killings. And that's how they became conditioned to that.

SB: Did she admit then that you had a point?

MJ: Nope, she thinks I'm rewarding bad kids.

SB: Did she want you to be a father to her children?

MJ: Well that was once asked of her. She was asked that question on TV and she said, " No, they have a father. Their father is Keogh," that other guy. But I was really good to her children. Every day I'd bring them home something and they;d be waiting by the window for me and hug me. I love them. I miss them so much.

SB: Did she get used to living in Neverland or was it too isolated?

MJ: Lisa didn't live at Neverland. We visited Neverland the way...I lived at her house in the city and every once in a while we visited Neverland. It'd be like out big fun weekend.

SB: And her children liked it?

MJ: Are you kidding me? They were like in heaven.

SB: And you were happy to show it to them?

MJ: Mm hmm.

SB: Did it have more meaning to you suddenly when you had a family you could show it to?

dream222

谢谢!!!!!!!!!真的非常感谢！！！！！！！！

○range｀

谢谢LZ，谢谢翻译。

emily102110

感謝LZ,以及其他幫忙翻譯的同學~~

lijuan3301

我乖大家的翻译,谢谢

lanju7811

谢谢LZ，继续期待！！

熊顿

休假回来啦~！
我翻译水平有限，但是超想为MJ做点什么。。。勉强认领25楼那段吧。。。。
Part 3- Fame in adulthood

菜虫卿

感谢你们的翻译，你们太棒了

lovelymj

MJ: Yes, yes. It's just a place to make families, to bring them together, to bring people together through love and playful spirit and nature. It makes families closer, Neverland. It's healing.

SB: Since you idolize the family was it very hard for you when you had to go through that divorce then?

MJ: Which one?

SB: With Lisa.

MJ: Was it hard for me?

SB: Did you see the writing on the wall? That you were different? Meaning my parents divorced when I was eight. So I really, really romanticized marriage.

MJ: Really?

SB: Oh phenomenally. It's what all my books are about, marriage. Because I couldn't deal with...

MJ: So you really believe in marriage and all that? You love marriage?

SB: It's what I believe most in the world. I believe in family, I really do.

MJ: I do too, Shmuely.

SB- tells his story about his wife and how thousands of fans can't replace one true fan- one personal who is the most important fan of all- and that all you need in life is that one real fan and how important it is to have that.

MJ: That's right.

SB- talks again talks about one sincere fan who loves you for who you are not what you do etc;

MJ: It's beautiful, Shmuely. Thank you.

SB: I never knew I;d meet you back then, but I've been talking about this. Your name has come up in every lecture around the world on the subject. In other words, my whole point was, marriage is where you make one person feel like they're a superstar like Michael Jackson.

MJ: That's beautiful.

SB: But I am a big believer in marriage. So when your relationship with Lisa started to fall apart was it very hard? Your idealism about the family, everything you believed in building the intimate family you always wanted, especially because you knew...

MJ: I wanted children and she didn't.

SB: She felt she had her kids.

MJ: Yeah, and she promised me that before we married, that would be the first thing we'd do was to have children. So I was brokenhearted and I walked around all the time holding these little baby dolls and I'd be crying, that;s how badly I wanted them. So I was determined to have children. It disappointed me that she wouldn't keep her promise to me, you know? After we got divorced she would hang out with my mother all the time. I have all these letters saying, "I'll give you nine children. I'll do whatever you want," and of course the press don't know all these stories and she just tried for months and months and I just became too hard-hearted at that point. I closed my mind on the whole situation.

SB: So she thought maybe you could get back together?

MJ: Uh huh.

SB: But children were a major, major issue?

MJ: Of course.

SB: She had the kids and that was it.

MJ: She had hers and I wanted us to feel like we all were one big family and have more. I just....my dream is to have nine or ten children, that's what I want.

SB: You're still very young, do you think it will happen?

MJ: Yeah.

SB: But it means getting married again.

MJ: Yeah.

SB: Are you happy to do that?

MJ: Uh huh...or adopt.

SB: Is it possible Michael, that you're attracting the wrong kind of girl because of your celebrity?

MJ: It's hard. That's why it's hard. it's hard for me. It is hard. It's not easy for celebrities to be married.

SB: Do you think that you could only really marry celebrities so that they don't need you as much?

MJ: That helps, in my opinion. And they understand what you go through. They've been there.

SB: They help you for the right reasons, then?

MJ: Yeah, they're not after, you know? What you've made [ the money] or, you know? [singing] "That's what you are...." [ he won a Grammy for that].

SB: Right,right.

shell88

这段是关于MJ的家庭教师，和一些关于老年人、慈善的看法。
他的童年虽然悲惨，却也得到了无条件的爱。那些对他好的人，他都终生铭记。

ROSE FINE: MICHAEL的童年教师
----------------------------

Rabi和Mike谈论空中旅行.

MJ:它给我留下了严重的伤痕.

SB: 什么?

MJ:湍流，身处其中你以为活不了了。

SB: 还记得你跟我说过的犹太教师的故事吗？

MJ:Rose Fine?

SB: 你有一次在电话里说过，她常常对你说，那一次飞机上人人都将要死去了，那时有一个修女在飞机上。

MJ: 她说：“我们很好，我们坐在飞机上，我们如此有信念。我查过了，飞机上没有修女。”我总是相信那些。

SB: 你还在寻找修女吗？

MJ:我想! 我从未在飞机上见过修女. 她 [Rose Fine] 帮了我许多，她握住我的手，拥抱我. 演出结束后我回到房间，我们读书，喝热牛奶，我非常需要这些。她总对我说：“门是开着的。”她的门总是开着的。

SB: 一个人是否可能爱非亲生孩子就象爱自己的孩子。你爱孩子们就象爱Prince和Paris那样吗?

MJ:绝对可以。

SB: 我注意到一件令人印象深刻的事，当我说“Prince和Paris很美丽”，你总说“不。所有孩子都很美丽”。你不让我只是称赞Prince和Paris。

MJ:对我来说是这样的。我在所有孩子身上看到了美....对我来说他们都是美丽的. 他们如此美丽，我爱他们所有人 - 平等地。我常和不同意我的人们争论。他们说你应该爱自己的孩子更多些.

SB: Rose Fine, 虽然她不是你的亲生母亲，但给了你许多母爱?

MJ: 我非常需要那些. 我小时候很少和母亲在一起，我有一个特别好的母亲，我把她看作天使，但我经常离家，总在不停巡演，走遍了美国、国外、俱乐部，总是离家。（Rose Fine）帮助了我许多. 我们（Janet和我）照顾她直至她去世。她最近刚去世。

SB: 你是否认为我们这个项目的背景文字中应该提到她？

MJ:是的，一定要这样，她需要被铭记。

SB: 她多大年纪了?

MJ:她从来不告诉我她的年龄。我想她有九十多岁了。她过去常说“我退休后就会告诉你我的年龄。”但当她退休时还是没有告诉我。她从Jackson 5第一次职业巡演时直至我18岁和我们在一起，第一次巡演是在我们有大的突破-第一首热门单曲之后。她总有权力，比如说如果演唱会开始太晚，她有权力中止演出，因为教育部门会说“孩子不能超过合法时间”。她总让（演出）继续。她不会伤害听众。

SB: 她在白天教学吗?

MJ:啊哈。

SB: 常规的科目? 数学?英文?她一起教你们5个?

MJ:是的, 一起, 3个小时。她教Janet, 所有人。

SB: 跟我多说些她的事情。.

MJ: 好的，Rose今年去世了。Janet和我支付了她的护理和医院治疗费用。如果她的电视机坏了，电费或家里的修理费用我们都付账。现在她的丈夫病了，我也在照顾他。我们感觉她就象我们的母亲，照顾母亲是应该的。

SB: 你真的那样感觉?

MJ:绝对的。她不仅仅是一个教师。她去世时我在很远的地方，这令我很生自己的气，我不能赶去。我当时在瑞士，Evvy（Michael的秘书）在电话里告诉我她去世了，我说“什么？我在瑞士，我无法......"我生自己的气，但我作了能作的。

令人伤心的是，我去看她，说“Fine夫人，我是Michael”，她说“不要说你是Michael，你不是Michael”。她不认得我了。变老并不总是美的。这很伤感。

SB: 一个孩子会如何应对这些事呢? （...跳过...）你认为变老是一种诅咒吗？

MJ: 在某种意义上，当身体开始生病时。但当老人重返童真，我曾见到过，他们变得非常好玩和象孩子似的。我与老人们有很好的关系因为他们有孩子般的特质。当我去医院时，我总是想法偷溜进另一个房间去和老年人说话。我两天前去医院时还这么做来着, 他们很甜蜜，他们欢迎你就象孩子一般。他们说“进来”然后我们谈话。他们单纯而又甜蜜。

老年人和孩子非常相像。他们无忧无虑，自由玩耍，单纯而又甜蜜。这是一种心灵的感觉。我造访老人院不象孤儿院那么多。许多人有老年痴呆症，不认得人。但我与老年人有非常好的关系。我喜欢和老年人交谈，他们可以告诉你他们小时候的故事以及世界在那时是什么样子，我喜欢这些。很久以前在纽约有一个老犹太人告诉我“永远为你的天才而感激，永远为不幸的人们付出，帮助其他人”。 ( 这位老人告诉Mike一个故事,小的时候父亲经常给他一些衣服和面包,让他放在别人的门前,敲门后就跑开,这样别人就不知道是谁做的)

SB: 你曾尝试作匿名慈善行为吗?

MJ: 是的,不会张扬。他 [Michael上面提到的人] 说慈善是发自心底而不是为了赞誉, 他跑开后人们就不知道谁留下了那些东西,仿佛是上帝留在那的,不是吗? 这真是太美好了,我从未忘记这个故事。我当时大约11岁,听到这个故事。他是老年人,非常甜蜜,一个犹太人,我记得。

Michael和SB discuss讨论犹太宗教,以及Rose是犹太人,等待;
Michael说 : 她教给我书本和阅读的精彩世界. 如果没有她,我就不是今天的我。我对她很感激,这就是为什么我将新专辑献给她。

SB: 你是否认为她把你看作儿子?

MJ:她称我为她的儿子。每次上飞机时你都能看到7个黑人小孩子和一个黑人父亲,都是非洲式蓬蓬头，然后一位白人犹太老妇人在后面,他们拦住她,问"你是谁?",她就会说"我是他们的母亲",她每次都那么说,然后他们就放行了。甜蜜的故事。她很特别，我需要她。

SB: 她给了你无条件的爱吗?

MJ:是的.

SB: 你认为在两个没有血缘关系的人之间存在无条件的爱吗?

MJ:哦,天啊,当然了。我在她身上学到了这一点,我曾见过,也曾经历过。那跟血缘或种族或教义或肤色无关.爱就是爱,它打破所有界限,你能看到它。我在孩子的眼睛中看到它，当我看着孩子,我看到无助的小狗。他们真甜美。怎么有人能伤害他们?他们那样美妙。

SB: 她今年去世了,这意味着你必须应对悲伤.一个孩子如何应对悲伤?一个孩子生活在天堂里,那是我们所试图描绘的完美世界。成人大多在战争,嫉妒和世故中腐蚀了,然后死亡突然降临,即使孩子也必须面对死亡。你如何面对死亡?一个孩子如何面对死亡?


MJ: 是的.我不得不面对死亡,这很难.

DEARMICHAEL

谢谢你们!
又进来看了刚译的两段.

seeyou

谢谢楼主和参与翻译的诸位

jessicayang

七楼翻译   关于父亲

SB:你现在还是对你父亲心存不满么？

MJ:我以前是这样的，我以前对他的行为感到非常生气。我会回到自己的房间然后因为愤怒而大叫，因为我真的不明白一个人怎么会如此的残酷卑劣。有时候在夜里十二点左右我正在床上睡觉。我已经唱了一整天，也录了一整天的歌，不能玩也没有任何乐趣。这时候他会说：“打开门！”他通常回来的很晚。门是锁上的。“我给你5秒钟的时候打开门，要不然我就一脚踢开！”他说。然后他就开始拿脚踢门，闯进来。“你为什么不签合同？”他问。“我不知道”，我说。“好吧，你最好把它签了，要不然你会有麻烦。”我想，“天哪，这是为什么？父爱都哪去了？这就是我的父亲么？”。我说：“难道我非得这么做么？”这时候他会把你狠狠地打你。他很强壮。

SB: 你那时候开始觉得你对他来说就像一个摇钱树？
MJ:是，绝对是的。

SB: 就像Macaulay Culkin 说的那样？所以你已经习惯了？
MJ:是的。有一天，我挺烦再说一遍的，有一天他这么说，当然我还是愿上帝保佑我的父亲，毕竟他也做了很多很好的事而且他也很有才华，可以说是天才。但是有一天他说了这么一句：“如果你们这些家伙哪一天不唱歌了，我会立马把你们甩掉不管。”这句话深深地伤害了我。你会想也许他会想到，“这些孩子也有他们的情感和想法。”难道他就不会想到他说这些会伤到我们么？如果我对Prince和Paris说了这样的话那绝对很伤感情。你也不会对你的孩子说这样的话，这句话我永远也忘不了。这也影响了而后至今我和父亲的关系。

SB: 也就是说如果有一天你不表演了，他就不会再爱你们了？
MJ: 他会立即扔下我们。他就是这么说的。

SB: 你母亲会替他解释么？会说“别听他的，他不是这个意思”这种话么？
MJ:在父亲发火，像打我们的时候，开始她一般在不显眼的地方，但是后来她会说这样的话。（用女声）“Joe,不，别这样，你会杀了他们的！不！Joe,够了！”然后他开始摔家具，那简直糟透了。我一直都在说如果我有了孩子我绝对不会那样做，我绝对不会打他们。人们总是会说受虐待的人也会这样虐待别人，但这不对，绝对不正确，我完全不属于这样的人。可能我做的最严厉的事就是让我的孩子站到角落里反省，但那已经够严厉了。

SB: 我认为你是对的。我很讨厌人们说什么受虐者同样会施虐这样的话，这好像意味着你就一定是个不好的人。
MJ:这种说法不对。我总是会在心里暗暗发誓我决不会这么做，永远不会。如果在电影里或者是在商店里，我听到有人和自己的孩子争吵，我会很痛心。因为那就反映了我小时候是怎样被对待的。遇到那样的情况，我会伤心哭泣，我禁不起这些，那些真的令我很痛心。
MJ: 我至今都挺怕我的父亲。上帝知道我说的都是实话，每次他一出现我就吓得发晕。说实话我真的曾经晕倒过。他一出现我就想吐，因为他一进房间那种紧张感就被他带进来了，然后我的胃就开始疼因为我知道我有麻烦了。他现在改变了很多。年龄逐渐增大，还有那些孙子孙女都使他改变了很多，而且他也想做一个更合格的父亲。但是这对于我来说，就像一艘船已经走过了他的航线不能改变一样，很难接受一个跟以前大不一样的父亲即便他有了改变。我真是希望他能早点意识到这一点。

SB: 那为什么你至今都怕他？
MJ: 因为伤疤依旧在那，旧时的伤痕。

SB: 所以你还是把他作为以前那样的父亲来看待。把他当做一个全新的人来看对你来说很难么？
MJ 我不能把他当做一个全新的人来看待。在他面前，我就像个吓坏了的孩子。有一天他对我说：“为什么你那麽怕我？”我没法回答他。我很想说：“你知道你曾做过什么么？”（声音中断）“你知道你曾对我做过什么么？”

SB: 你叫他“爸爸”还是Joseph?
MJ: 在我们的成长过程中我们不允许叫他爸爸。他说：“别叫我爸爸，我是Joseph."那就是他告诉我们的。但现在他希望我们叫他爸爸。他以前总是坚持说：”别叫我爸爸，我是Joseph."我特别喜欢Prince和Paris叫我"Daddy",或者有时候你听到有些意大利小孩叫“Papa",或是犹太孩子叫”Poppy",那些都令人感到甜蜜。你怎么可能不会为此而感到骄傲呢？那都是你的子女啊。

SB:从什么时候开始他不让你们叫他爸爸？
MJ:从很小的时候一直到Off the wall和Thriller时期。

SB: 他觉得那样显得他很专业么？
MJ: 不是。他觉得他是一个年轻男人。作为父亲他似乎过于冷酷了。他是Joseph.我觉得他肯定不喜欢我这样说……

SB:我曾经在哪看到过你母亲以前曾想过离婚，并且正式提出过。
MJ:我不知道她是否正式提出过，可能有。不，不，她没有正式提出过。但曾经有很多次，因为他和其他女人还有他的粗暴，母亲想过离婚。但是在教义里只有在对方与其他人通奸的情况下她才可以提出离婚。虽然他也有过那样的情况而且母亲也知道，但是她是那样一个圣人以至于她不愿意与他分开。她知道他在外面做的事，与别的女人纠缠不清，但是她是那样善良能够忍受他回家后还可以跟她睡在一张床上。我从来没有遇到过像母亲那样的人，他就像Mother Teresa.很少会有人像她一样。

SB:所以她是一个长期忍受着痛苦，有着圣人一般善良的女人。你有没有认为她这样似乎忍受的太久了？就是说她不应该再继续忍受下去……
MJ: 我们以前也劝过她与父亲离婚。我们会说：”妈妈，跟他离婚吧。“她总会说：”让我一个人静一静！“我们会继续说：”赶快摆脱他吧！“甚至在我们小时候我们冲她吼道要她离婚。但是多年来我们总会听到汽车接近的声音，他总是开着一辆奔驰车而且开得很慢。”Joseph快到家啦，Joseph快到家啦，快点走！“每个人都会跑向自己的房间然后撞上门。

SB: 你们曾经那么怕他？
MJ: 是啊。我总在说：”我希望当我回到家穿过门厅时，我的孩子们会扑过来抱着我叫爸爸。当然现在就是这样，我想要的跟我们以前完全相反，我可不想孩子们见我就跑开。